Author Topic: Scottish or Irish?  (Read 3310 times)

Offline sadnil

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Scottish or Irish?
« on: Friday 04 February 05 09:00 GMT (UK) »
I have a problem with a family name that has been spelt several ways.
McClacklin (on my 4XGGrandmothers marriage 1806)
McLacklin
McLoughin
and one or two others. On the 1871 census for Whitby there is a Catherine who has place of birth unknown, 1881 she is Scottish and by 1891 she has become Irish.
Does anyone know which country this name and it's variants may have come from
Corns/Lenton/Downing in Rugeley Staffs
Winspear/Leadley/Hodgson/McClacklin in Whitby N.Yorks
Corns/Binyon/Crofton/Mason/Smith/Farrol in Sunderland
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Lady Macbeth

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Gegan, Geoghegan, Gagan, or any variation whatsoever in Ireland (particularly Co Offaly/Kings Co) and Scotland;
Symons and Symon in Angus, Perthshire and Aberdeenshire, Scotland;
McKenna in Ireland and Scotland;
Wilkie in Kincardine and Angus, Scotland

Offline RJ_Paton

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Re: Scottish or Irish?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 04 February 05 16:54 GMT (UK) »
It used to be claimed that Mac meant scottish derivation and Mc irish .... but like all generalisations this isn't strictly true.

However I would agree with the good Lady MacB and assume Irish on this occasion

Offline sadnil

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Re: Scottish or Irish?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 05 February 05 20:00 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for that, there seems to be an idea that they came down from Northumberland but it is possible the original family crossed from Ireland. Unfortunately their name would have been spelt as anyone heard it.
Corns/Lenton/Downing in Rugeley Staffs
Winspear/Leadley/Hodgson/McClacklin in Whitby N.Yorks
Corns/Binyon/Crofton/Mason/Smith/Farrol in Sunderland
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Boongie Pam

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Re: Scottish or Irish?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 03 March 05 21:29 GMT (UK) »
A further interesting point and question on the Mac Mc theories.

In Dumfrieshire names such as McLean or Maclean are often written in records (OPR & census) as M'Lean.  Is M' a regional oddity or do other areas of Scotland have this?

Pam
 ;D
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
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Offline bonjedward

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Re: Scottish or Irish?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 03 March 05 22:01 GMT (UK) »
I don't think it's regional, just an older abbreviation no longer used.

I have a (replica) poster of Hebridean ferry timetables from 1939 hanging on the wall. It says "for futher particulars, apply in Tobermory to John M'Farlane"; also the Telegraphic Address is M'CALLUM, GLASGOW - elsewhere on the poster its says McCallum. There's also a MacDougall.

Interestingly, a number of the Herbridean ports of call listed are spelt differently compared to today, so the spelling of surnames and place names change over time.
Researching: Towers family of Paisley; Argyll: Carmichael, McQueen; W. Lothian: Aitken, Smeal, Cunningham, Brash, Easton; Stirlingshire: Bruce, Henderson, Galloway;  Midlothian: Gillis, Philp, Turner; Ayrshire: Robertson, McMurren (also County Down), Bone, Eaglesham, Scoffield, Frew, McLatchie;  Moray: Rennie, Stronach;   Donegal, Derry: Douglas, Wray, Steen;  Bermuda: Outerbridge, Seon

Offline Little Nell

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Re: Scottish or Irish?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 03 March 05 22:08 GMT (UK) »
I have also found the M'.... abbreviation in Edinburgh area late 19th century.  This was in printed obituaries.  It makes it .. difficult to search indexes.  I'm still trying to work out if there was a pattern to this i.e. whether it was related to the time period, the area or fashion. ???

Nell
All census information: Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline JAP

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Re: Scottish or Irish?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 04 March 05 08:21 GMT (UK) »
sadnil,

It seems that it could be anything!

I note that your ancestor's is the only appearance in the IGI of a name with spelling MCCLACKLIN.  And unfortunately - though they had quite a few children - Ann's maiden name is not given in their birth/christening entries.

It does look like a version of the widespread name which is spelled in various ways e.g. McLACHLAN, McLOUGHLIN, McLAUGHLIN, etc (or Mac!).  And that name goes way way back.  I think it would not be prudent to make any guesses about Ann's origins without further information.  And I would not draw any conclusions at all from use of Mc, Mac or M' (I have about 80 variant spellings for the Scottish name McLaws/MacLehose including Mc, Mac, M' (not to mention the same name starting with Mickle, Meikle, Muckle, etc, etc).

Have you looked at the film with the Parish Register entry for their 1806 marriage?  The name may have been wrongly transcribed.   Also, perhaps you just might be lucky enough to find that the entry gives some other clue (unlikely but you never know ...).

As they were still in Whitby when their children were born, perhaps they were still there, and Ann still alive, by the time of the 1841 census - have you looked up the 1841 census?  If you find her, that should at least give you a clue to her birthplace and age.  Even better if she survived until the 1851 (though I see that FreeBMD has an Ann WINSPEAR dying in Whitby in 1849).

If you have not looked at these censuses, perhaps a lookup request on the Yorkshire, North Riding board would be a good idea - it certainly looks as though people have been helped with the 1851 census (though not the 1841? - But, who knows).

Cheers,

Judy
PS: you mentioned a Catherine in much later censuses in Whitby.  Is she related?

Offline sadnil

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Re: Scottish or Irish?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 08 March 05 11:43 GMT (UK) »
Thanks all,
I am waiting for the parish records results on Ann's marriage. I don't know wether there is a connection with the Catherine in the census, the spelling is Mcloughlin and there is a good few years in between. Even if my Ann was only 16 when she married she would have been born in 1790. There is a yard in Whitby on the West side called McClacklins Yard, I am going to have a little dig around when I go up North at Easter and see what I can find.
Corns/Lenton/Downing in Rugeley Staffs
Winspear/Leadley/Hodgson/McClacklin in Whitby N.Yorks
Corns/Binyon/Crofton/Mason/Smith/Farrol in Sunderland
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk