Paces -Seaton Sluice

[blythspirit]

Can anybody help with this one. I was born in Seaton Sluice 1933, my mother's maiden name was Daphne Pace, my father was Joseph Telfer. I can trace his line all the way back to the 18thC but I'm having problems with my mothers side. Her father,my Grandfather we think his name was Thomas, but I'm not sure, because we always just called him Grand'da. He was a retired miner, used to work in the Hartley Pit. We believe his family originated in Cornwall. Possibly came up as blackleg miners! We never knew my grandmother on that side, she msu have died before I was born but I can't ever recall hearing her spoken about. Her family were Carthy's from Ireland.

[Ecneps]

Hello blythspirit,

welcome to Rootschat!   

Do you have your parents' marriage certificate or mother's birth certificate, which should give you both her parents' names, to help get further back?  Have you found your grandparents in the 1901 census?  Any information at all could help

Kind regards,
Barbara
 

[Michael Dixon]

blythspirit,

As you respond to Barbara's question, let me add a couple of snippets....

*The surname PACE has no roots in Cornwall or in the south-west of England.
The name was however strongly rooted in Staffordshire area, e.g. Wolverhampton.

* When you say Hartley Pit, do you mean the pit at New Hartley  ?

*Hold fire on the "blackleg" bit, which I guess has been orally handed down to you, rather than from documentary evidence.
In the main "blacklegs" ( meaning those who worked through a strike or dispute or were brought in by mining officials to replace miners in dispute) would have been hounded out of the industry and the community.

* Where was your father born ?


Michael Dixon

[Annied22]

blythspirit,
* When you say Hartley Pit, do you mean the pit at New Hartley  ?

Michael Dixon

Was there more than one Hartley Pit at that time? I'm asking because I have some transcripts of a diary, written in the 1890s by one of my relatives who was a miner and lived in Seaton Sluice and he just refers to "Hartley Pit" too. I've always assumed it was the one at New Hartley, but I could easily be wrong. Was there a pit at what's now called "Old Hartley"? It would have been a lot closer to Seaton Sluice.

[Ecneps]

Do you have your parents' marriage certificate or mother's birth certificate, which should give you both her parents' names, to help get further back?  Have you found your grandparents in the 1901 census?  Any information at all could help

Still need a bit more information if we are to help 

Some mine information here:  http://www.dmm.org.uk/colliery/index_h.htm
Same site with Pace names:  http://www.dmm.org.uk/names/names_pa.htm

Barbara

[blythspirit]

Sorry, long delay in getting back to this search. Now in French Alps, weather not to good for skiing today so am getting organised to do some serious searching.

I'm not sure whether there was more than one Hartley pit. I know my grandfather worked at the pit which was the scene of a major disaster.

As to blacklegs Michael, it was vaguely suggested that my great great grandfather might have come to the area as a blackleg. I'm pretty sure my grandfather was locally born and bred as he had a very strong pitmatic accent.
ne
My father was born in Scotswood, Newcastle and that side as far as the male line is well documented
as far back as the 18th century and if I can verify certain links we could go back to Robert Taleford 17th Century father of Ralph(Raldolphus)Taleford ,born 1712

The female side of the tree is much more problematic.

Unfortunately Barbara I don't  have any documents going back further than my own birth certificate.
I believe my mother and father's marriage was recorded in Whitley Bay some time in 1932 so I'll start lloking for that next.

Thanks for the help and interest

Nick Telfer 

PS Pity the Spartans lost. I grew up right next to the football ground!

[Michael Dixon]

Nick, ( Spartans now have to be sure to avoid relegation ! )

Just a bit on the tricky issue of  naming pits/collieries

First a bit of background on places....

 All parishes in those days were the next level down from "county" They were the forerunners of modern local authorities and comprised of areas of land called "Townships". ( and not necessarily to contain towns)

The two parishes in our area were Horton ( with 5 townships) and Earsdon with eight townships....

Burradon, Seghill, Backworth, Holywell, HARTLEY, South Blyth&Newsham, Seaton Delaval and Earsdon itself.

Within the township of Hartley lay the communities of Hartley Mill, Hartley New Farm, Hartley Harbour ( to be later renamed Seaton Sluice) and Hartley village itself. And several coal pits called Hartley, were contained in this "township", but all abandoned by 1850s.

The open-field site where the Hestor Pit was sunk in 1845 ( to become the "disaster" pit in 1862) lay not in the "township" of Hartley, but within the "township" of Seaton Delaval.

As a community grew up around this new pit, it  became known as New Hartley after the name of the company that owned it. This led to folk calling the original Hartley village " Old Hartley" to distinguish between the two.

The early railway station, Hartley or New Hartley station lay in Seaton Delaval township not Hartley township.

Now this bit I am less sure about, seeing you say your grandad worked at the New Hartley (disaster pit-1862 - 404 fatalies ). I believe that after the bodies were removed from underground, the pit was forever abandoned. But later on, 1870s,  two NEW pits were sunk, The Hastings and the Melton,   just north of the site of the disaster pit.



Pit Name Trivia
*I was born in Bebside Colliery Village, that lay outside the territory of the Township of Bebside, but name after the coal company that owned the pit

* Part of the town of Blyth today is called The Bella or Isabella, which got it's name from a coal pit that was sunk there, which got it's name from a lady within the family of the coal company owner.

* In fields around the area of Low Horton, on the west side of Blyth, in mid 1800s, a coal pit called the Forster Pit, was sunk by the New Delaval Coal Company. Today this area of Blyth is called New Delaval.

Just a few examples of places been named after pits that were sunk there, and not the vice versa, where places gave their names to the pits !


Michael Dixon

[Ecneps]

Hi Nick

Marriage: GRO ref is Dec Qu 1932 Tynemouth 10b 525 if you wish to order the certificate

and wonder if this is your mother's birth registration 2 entries with different spelling
Jun 1906  Tynemouth    10b   348  PACE    Dephine
same reference  PACE Dephnie

   
Barbara

[Ecneps]

There is this couple who fit, remembering you said Carthy for your grandmother's maiden name, though you still may wish to get certs to confirm:

1901 census  RG13/4809 Folio  100 Page  4
15 Melton Terrace, New Hartley, Seaton Delaval, Tynemouth

Thomas Pace  head m 33 Coal Miner Hewer    Durham Byre Moor
Sarah J Pace   wife  m 26                      Northumberland Delaval
Ivan Pace          son  under 10 months                       "          "
Peter Cartie brother-in-law   13                                 "          "

But!  The possible marriage I found has another surname for Sarah, so maybe a previous marriage?
Dec 1897   Tynemouth    10b   455
ADAMS    Sarah Jane     PACE  Thomas


Barbara