1871 census Ontario (Peterborough area) CHARMAN

[SC]

I am looking for info on the Charman family
I would like to find them on the 1871 census in the Peterborough area
Herbert Charman, a carpenter, and his wife Emma, married 1865 in England, came to Canada
around 1868/69
First 2 children Emma and Herbert A born in England, daughter Florence supposed to be born 1870 in Peterborough area
They are in Peterborough in 1881- Herbert is age 44
They moved to BC by 1897 where Florence was married

Is there also a Robert Charman, also a carpenter, who I found on an 1871 index ??
Possibly a relative

Any help much appreciated
Thanks  SC

[suzard]

Can't help with 1871 -but I think I have found herbert with his family in england in 1841 and 1861 if of interest?

Suz

[AMBLY]

Hi SC

The 1871 Ontario Census is a "Head of Household" Census only - plus 'strays' ie:  individuals who had different last names than the head of household (who  may be servants, or relatives, visitors etc).

The  1871 Index only throws up Robert CHARMAN age 33, carpenter, b England,  as you state, in Peterborough.

http://db.library.queensu.ca/census/

Searching that Database for any Herbert born England who was a capenter or not., has no results that look or sound like CHARMAN.

and if  Herbert and his wife & children were in that town too & Robert was a relative, AND they  were staying with Robert .... as is entirely possible  -  you 'll only see Robert listed.

Do you know if your Herbert had a brother named Robert?

Cheers
AMBLY

[SC]

Hi Ambly and Suz

Thanks for your interest in this

I don't know anything yet about Herbert's family, other than finding a very likely marriage ref in 1865 in Lambeth Dist, England, to an Emma Houston and data on Canadian censuses
In 1881 Herbert is 44, 1901 says b Mar 2nd 1837 and 1911 says b Mar 1838 and his death ref in Vancouver in 1921 age 84 which makes the 1837 one more likely and that is before FreeBMD
I know he is a carpenter but born England doesn't help much!
I'm working backwards from the 1881 having found Florence

Your info on the 1871 explains why I might not be able to find him, but I don't know if he had a brother Robert, maybe if so he could have come first and then Herbert

Maybe there is someone with access to passenger lists who might find his date of immigration??

Suz, I would be interested in what you found for 1841 and 1861 and see if it ties in with any of this
Many thanks
SC

[suzard]

I wonder if the Robert found in 1871 is a mistranscription -or misentry - for herbert Quite easy to mix the names up???

1841
Fetcham Surrey

Stephen Charman 30 blacksmith
Elizabeth 30 Laundress
Elizabeth 7
Stephen 5
Herbert 3
Sarah 10mths
all b in county
HO107 1070 10 3 7 10

1861
Lower Snowden
Patshall
Staffordshire
Stephen Charman head m 53 ag lab Cupel Surrey
Elizabeth wife 54 Laundress Dorking Surrey
Elizabeth daughter U 27 laundress Dorking Surrey
Herbert son U 23 Carpenter Dorking Surrey
William son 18 ag lab Fetcham Surrey
James son 16 ag lab Leatherhead Surrey
Henry son 13 Errand Boy Dorking Surrey
Walter son 9 scholar Dorking Surrey
Esther neice 17 visitor Cobham Surrey
Eliza Smallman Helper? 14 Puttingham Staffs
RG9 1852 92 8

will look again in 1851
Suz

[suzard]

Found them!

1851
Horsham Rd
Dorking
Surrey
Stephen Charman head M 43 labourer Cupel Surrey
Elizabeth wife 44 Dorking Surrey
Elizabeth daughter 17 Dorking Surrey
Stephen son 15 Cow Boy Dorking surrey
herbert son 13 Cow tending? Dorking Surrey
Sarah jane daughter 10 scholar Leatherhead Surrey
William son 8 scholar Fetcham Surrey
James son 6 scholar Leatherhead Surrey
henry son 3 Dorking Surrey
HO107 1598 177 2

there are no other herberts who match the age and occupation

Suz

[suzard]

IGI extracted

Christening
Herbert Charman
4 April 1838 Dorking Surrey England
parents
Stephen Charman
Elizabeth

Suz

[suzard]

IGI extracted
Christening
Stephen Charman
10 Jun 1806
Cupel Surrey England
mother Sarah Charman

marriage IGI extracted
Stephen Charman
Elizabeth Amey
16 Dec 1833 St mark kennington London Eng


Suz

[SC]

Hi suz

I tried to reply to your first census but it wouldn't take my message - obviously you were also postng at the same time!

What you have found seems pretty conclusive doesn't it
I had also found that christening as a possible if the Stephen/Elizabeth scenario was the right one
I appreciate your help on this

Just saw your reply with Stephen's chr and marriage - thanks for that

Could you perchance see if there is a suitable Emma Houston b Dec 1839 please?
(age 42 in 1881, b Dec 1839 in 1901 and 1911, d age 87 in Dec 1926)
the marriage took place in Lambeth District but she could also be born in same area as Herbert and maybe just working in Lambeth area in 1865 (Herbert was in Staffs in 1861)

Thanks
SC