Looking for Alexander Douglass, born 1817 in Ireland

[jody17141]

Looking for my 3-great-grandfather, Alexander Douglass, born 12/25/1817 in Ireland.  (I’ve also seen his birth date listed as 1818.)  Sometime before 1849 he emigrated to the Eastern Townships of Quebec where he married Esther Phelps.  He lived the rest of his life there, had 9 children with her, and died on 11/22/1871 in Stanbridge, Que. 

I am desperate to find out where in Ireland he was born and who his parents were, and anything else about his life prior to moving to Canada.  Any help is greatly appreciated!!

[BallyaltikilliganG]

Thats not going to be easy as you are seeking a church record or an existing family tree
I looked up a special Co Down website and there about 10 Alexander Douglas of various spellings  going back earlier than your connection.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/D/DotDov.htm
one would need to search that database carefully useing a find search for Alexander in case he comes up as a son or some such entry under another first name entry.

As regards existing family trees, you would be exceptionally lucky but every effort is worth it, my suggestions are to check out initially with least expense as follows
DOUGLAS   volume 16p60, vo;ume 52 Belfast   and DOUGLASS volume 49.
in the Blackwood Family history manuscript trees in the LinenHall library, Belfast.  Vistiting would be best but if not I suggest you ask them for photocopying estimates if they think your knowledge relevant and you should be prepared to pay a fee for copying, post and packing, and perhaps some staff time and overheads. However if the material is really relevant when you get it, I suggest a further donation to this unique library that is always needing extra funds Linen Hall Library,17 Donegall Square North, Belfast BT15GB, Northern Ireland, Telephone: +44 (0)28 9032 1707,  Fax: +44 (0)28 9043 8586, Email: <irish.reference[at]linenhall.com>.replace the [AT] with the symbol please
So thats a starter for the new year, good luck
Jim

[jody17141]

Thank you so much for your reply.  I realize I am looking for a needle in a haystack.  Can you tell me if Co. Down was just a random thought, or is there some reason you think I should focus on this area? 

I looked up the Linen Hall Library and it seems like a very good source for existing family trees (which I think will be my best bet).  I won’t be able to go there, much as I would love to, but I will contact them to see what they can do. 

I should mention some further details just in case they might spark something: 

According to noted genealogist Elizabeth Leach Rixford (who wrote several highly regarded genealogy books back in the 1930’s, and who was also Alexander’s niece by marriage), my Alexander Douglass was 17th in descent from Robert Bruce, King of Scotland.  I would like to document or disprove this, one way or the other, and determining his parentage would certainly help a great deal. 

Also, a Douglass cousin recently participated in DNA testing.  According to the test results, he (and thus Alexander Douglass) are definitely descended from the Earls of Morton, possibly the Tilquhillie branch.

Thank you again,

Jody Parker

[BallyaltikilliganG]

Jody, County Down came out of my past, I made the quick index to the Blackwood manuscripts outside of workiing hours when I worked at the Linenhall Library and so remembered that connection because at the time I thought 2xS must be a mistake, it wasnt and was my introduction to the Ulster Scot - Scottish connections which concentrate in the north of ireland and the first house we moved into in Belfast was owned by a Bobby Douglas who moved into my ancestral part Comber Co Down. He has probably done his family history. {he wasan antique dealer}

I should be directing you to other sources for example NIFHS [use google to find] has a special genalogical index apart from their own indexed interests, the book by J?Bell on Ulster Surnames will have a page or more, the irish times newspaper has a special database giving good overviews of irish surnames. Have you searched the Douglas etc pages on Surname Message boards for 'Ireland' ie on Genforum and Rootsweb indeed is there a book published try Linenhall librarys catalogue change the collection a few times to be sure.
Then there are sources at the Ulster Historical Foundation whose BMDs can be initially looked at for free and then it becomes a fee or subscription base.  I would be trying the IGI entries for AD on www.familysearch.com useing Ireland often carries baptisms before other records became available, and you have a first name which is essential for starting with their index. Reduce the haystack , keep a list of negative searches, and try other message boards eg Ulsterancestry, and
now I must stop, keep going you will break thru sooner than later
Jim

[jody17141]

I have tried all the usual resources (Rootsweb, LDS, GenForum - searches, message boards, etc.) to no avail, and I am also involved with the Douglas DNA Project.  So far I haven't been able to determine that which seems most important -- who his parents were.  But you have given me some good new resources to look into, and every little bit helps.  And there's always the hope that someone will come along and see these posts and bells will ring...

Thank you again,

Jody Parker

[BallyaltikilliganG]

How do know about his birth date eg in a bible or ?
My instinct is to encourage you further trying yet again no doubt to find his listing in passenger lists. I am not sure what help you may get but surely try if you haven’t already, so how about
Centre For Migration Studies
The Centre for Migration Studies  (CMS) was established in 1998. It developed from the previous Centre for Emigration Studies at the Ulster-American Folk Park, bringing together and building on three main elements: The Library: the Irish Emigration Database Project: and the Masters degree in Irish Migration Studies (QUB), taught since 1996.  Our Mission is to serve the community as a leading international institution for the study of human migration focusing on the peoples of Ireland worldwide in partnership with the Ulster-American Folk Park.  The CMS is located on the Ulster-American Folk Park site in Omagh and the specialist reference library is open to the public for research.General Opening Hours :Monday to Friday: 10.30am 4.30pm   Contact us at:
2 Mellon Road,
Castletown,
Omagh,
Co Tyrone,
Northern Ireland
BT78 5QY
Telephone: (028) 8225 6315
Fax: (028) 8224 2241
Email: Centre for Migration Studies
Website: www.qub.ac.uk/cms

Canadian census presumably have listed him?

fromfamilysearch.com  I realise how many Alexdr Douglass there are,  I noticed what looks like a 2nd child being named after one lost, and wondered had you tried contacting one of the submitters of Douglass information close to your dates eg
ALEXDR DOUGLASS
Christening:  28 MAY 1809   St Annes, Belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Christening:  03 JAN 1813   St Annes, Belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Parents:
  Father:  ALEXDR DOUGLASS  Family
  Mother:  BELL     
Messages:
 Form submitted by a member of the LDS Church. The form lists the submitter's name and address and may include source information

I did take a peep at NIFHS Genealogy Search Engine at www.nifhs.org and found too many just possible references to isolate one for you.

The book I mentioned is Bell, Robert, 1953-
Title The book of Ulster surnames / Robert Bell.
Publisher Belfast : Blackstaff Press, 1988. It’s a brief entry, the name is most common in Counties Antrim and Derry. he notes in Ireland its pronounced Doo keeping the original older sound, and in Scotland currently sounds Du.

It would be great if a current Douglass in Northern Ireland helped you, by say going to the Linenhall etc
So back to you again, Jim

[jody17141]

Most of the information I have on him is from "Three Hundred Colonial Ancestors and War Service" by genealogist Elizabeth Leach Rixford.  Rixford was a highly regarded genealogist back in her day, and her mother was Alexander’s wife’s sister, so she would have had access to family records.  She gives his date of birth as 12/25/1817, and said that he was “17th in descent from Robert Bruce, King of Scotland.”  I would love to find out what happened to all her research and records after her death in the 1950’s, but so far I haven’t had any luck with that.

I did find him listed in the Canadian census records, indicating that he was born in Ireland.  I know he moved to Canada sometime before 1849, when his first child (my 2G-grandfather, Rixford's first cousin) was born in Quebec. 

There are several entries for him in the LDS database (FamilySearch.org), all by one submitter.  However, I believe the submitter is mistaken about his parentage.  His parents are listed as Kenneth (Mackenzie) Douglas of Glenbervie and Rachel Andrews, but that is apparently not true.  All other sources indicate that their son Alexander Douglas was a different person altogether.  This is what prompted me to try to get to the bottom of this mystery. 

Also, I think I mentioned that my cousin has done DNA testing which has proven our descent from the Earls of Morton.  However, we don't have any details beyond Alexander...

[BallyaltikilliganG]

 I had a wee look sidewards at Canadian census and  my website used is http://ogs.on.ca/ogspi/5cd/c5dou001.htm#douglass
 BUT I NOTICED that one of the entries in either 1851 or 1861  goes out sequence moved from p67 to p49 which could mean more records exist but not properly transcribed. and more may EXISTand because of that I list a little of the detail here
DOUGLAS 1861 census @ca.on.306 page 050 line 25
@ca.on.perth_county.downie_township section 4 film C1064 lds0349311
25 DOUGLAS Alexander m 45 Ire Presb farmer married
26 DOUGLAS {?} Mary f 47 Ire Presb married
27 DOUGLAS William m 17 28 DOUGLAS Jean f 15 29 DOUGLAS Mary f 13 30 DOUGLAS Elizabeth f 8 31 DOUGLAS Nancy f 10 32 DOUGLAS Margaret f 3 33 DOUGLAS Isabella f 2 Ont Presb

Thinking about Elizabeth M. Leach Rixford’s   claim  that he was “17th in descent from Robert Bruce, King of Scotland.” “ 
Her book was published in 1934, 1938 and Reprinted: 1999  [The book included Bound with Supplement I, Supplement II, and Supplement II, Concluded ]

Did she know about  The Scots Peerage founded on Wood's edition of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage. - Vol.1-9  with Index. Publisher Edinburgh : David Douglas, 1904-1914.

then getting much more uptodate, have you seen any relevance in
Lauder-Frost, Gregory, FSA Scot., Some Descendants of Robert the Bruce, in The Scottish Genealogist, vol. LI, No.2, June 2004: 49-58, ISSN 0300-337X

from a quick look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_I_of_Scotland#cite_note-13, there’s a tree but descendant ??  No 17  is Christina the sister of  No 16 William de Brus, both children of  No 8 Robert de Brus the 4th.

I am not having ago at your beliefs, just seeing what else exists as opinions,  and much more importantly trying to get the Irish line into focus.

You say Rixford was a highly regarded genealogist back in her day, and her mother was Alexander’s wife’s sister, so she would have had access to family records.  She gives his date of birth as 12/25/1817, and said that he was “17th in descent from Robert Bruce, King of Scotland.” 
Then I looked up Google and found your conundrum entry and so at last I am in step with your careful reappraisal of who is he or he is?
So stickinglike glue to your statement Rixford ‘s her mother was Alexander’s wife’s sister. Yes surely she would be on the inside track of access to family records. Have you been able to check anything about the accuracy of that statement?

if I think of anything I will come back to you
good luck, honesty pays off in the long run
Jim

[jody17141]

It looks like you were looking at the Ontario census.  My Alexander Douglas lived in Stanbridge, Quebec.  Here is the listing for him in 1851 (and here's the link: http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1851_pdf/e093/e002307562.pdf):

Alexander Douglass      Farmer      Ireland      Methodist                   33
Esther Douglass            Canada            “      26
Herbert Douglass                “            “      3
John Douglass                “            “   2
Bertha Douglass                “            “      1

Rixford’s books were first published in the 1930’s.  She was the recipient of many honors and awards, including the Certificate of Merit in Genealogy by the Institute of American Genealogy in recognition of her “original research and meritorious contributions to the archives of American genealogy.” I would assume she was well aware of other sources such as Sir Robert Douglas’s Peerage, etc.  You asked, “Have you been able to check anything about the accuracy of that statement?”  Well, that is my mission – to determine who my Alexander Douglass was in terms of his lineage. 

I spent a lot of time looking through The Scots Peerage tonight, with no luck.  I will continue with that tomorrow. 

Thank you again, I’m so appreciative of all your ideas and suggestions!  I’m confident something will turn up eventually…