Author Topic: 1891 Census for Swansea Look-up Please(Wilson).  (Read 1674 times)

Offline Romilly

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,431
    • View Profile
1891 Census for Swansea Look-up Please(Wilson).
« on: Sunday 08 February 09 15:17 GMT (UK) »

Does anyone on here have access to the 1891 Census for Swansea?

(I've searched the 1891 Census for Wales on Ancestry, but I believe that their records are incomplete).

The person that I am looking for is my Grandfather, William James Wilson, born Manchester, Lancs. (Approx) 1857-1861.

At the time of his marriage to my Grandmother Margaret Rees, on the 22nd June 1893, he is living in Lower Oxford Street, Swansea & is employed as a 'House Painter'. On the 1901 Census for Wales, they are living at 113 St Helen's Road, Swansea.

I have never been able to find a definate Birth Entry for him, (on his Marriage Cert he gives his father's name as 'William Wilson, Deceased, Occupation Mason'). Likewise, I can't find him on the various Censuses for England. However, as he was working in Swansea in 1893, I'm wondering if he was there for the 1891 Census...

Any help welcomed, - I've been going round in circles with this one!
Romilly ::) ::) ::)
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Researching:
Wilson, Warren, Dulston, Hooper, Duffin, Petty, Rees, Davies, Williams, Newman, Dyer, Hamilton, Edmeads, Pattenden.

Offline Anna_C

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
    • View Profile
Re: 1891 Census for Swansea Look-up Please(Wilson).
« Reply #1 on: Monday 09 February 09 13:20 GMT (UK) »
Hi Romilly,

The BMD records have the following births for William James Wilsons in Manchester:

December 1871 -   Manchester vol 8d page 371
September 1840 - Manchester, vol 20 page 522
March 1847 - Manchester - vol 20 page 629

I'd say given the date of his marriage to your grandmother, the 1871 would tally best? (Though that doesn't fit with the dates you gave of 1857-61, so it's hard to say.  :-\ Are those dates based on the census estimated age?)

Found this on the 1881 census for Bradford, Lancashire which might be a possible?:

Address: 283 Mill St.

William J. Wilson     44 (head, occupation, cooper)
Sarah A. Wilson    39
Martha A. Wilson    18
William J. Wilson    14 (son - born in Manchester. Occupation, errand boy, chemical)
John J. Wilson    10
Mary Wilson    7
Richard Wilson    3
Elizabeth Wilson    1
Elizabeth Hughes    26

Not seeing anyone else that fits the bill for a father called William and the right dates. Might be of some help!

Anna :)







Offline Anna_C

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
    • View Profile
Re: 1891 Census for Swansea Look-up Please(Wilson).
« Reply #2 on: Monday 09 February 09 13:28 GMT (UK) »
How about this?

June 1864: WILSON    William James         Chorlton    8c   586

Chorlton is in South Manchester and this fits the estimated dates you gave?

Anna :)


Offline Anna_C

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
    • View Profile
Re: 1891 Census for Swansea Look-up Please(Wilson).
« Reply #3 on: Monday 09 February 09 13:42 GMT (UK) »
This is a possible for the 1891:

Census place: Chorlton, Manchester.

Sarah Wilson     61
William Wilson    29
Clara Wilson    22

It would fit with the first family I mentioned from the 1881, and with William's father being deceased by the time of his marriage.

Not finding any William Wilsons born in Manchester on the 1891 Wales census.

Anna


Offline Romilly

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,431
    • View Profile
Re: 1891 Census for Swansea Look-up Please(Wilson).
« Reply #4 on: Monday 09 February 09 14:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi Anna,

Many Thanks for looking for me, - much appreciated!

The only evidence I have for a possible DOB for William James Wilson is that on his Marriage Cert, in 1893 he gives his age as 32yrs, & then on the 1901 Census for Wales he is 40yrs. (This would give a birth date of 1860/61).

However, on his Death Cert in December 1934, his age is given as 77yrs! (This would give a Birth Date of 1857). The info was given by his son, George Felix Wilson, who might of course of course have got it wrong... addendum...on checking my paperwork, I find that it is me who has got it wrong!! My Grandmother died in 1934, but my Grandfather William James Wilson died in December 1937, - giving him a birth date of 1860).

I have also wondered if perhaps he 'made up' the bit (on his Marriage Cert) about his father being 'William Wilson, deceased, Occupation Mason'...(He was after all, an 'unknown' to the Swansea family he was marrying into, & perhaps he felt that he had to produce some relatives? The witnesses to the wedding are my Grandmother's father & sister Selina Rees).

If he was illegitimate for example, it might explain why I can't find him on any of the Censuses for England...(And of course, although he thought he was born in Manchester, it might be possible that he was born elsewhere, & then moved to Manchester at an early age).

I will have another look at the ones that you suggest, & see if I can follow them through on the other Censuses.
Thanks for the help!
Romilly.
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Researching:
Wilson, Warren, Dulston, Hooper, Duffin, Petty, Rees, Davies, Williams, Newman, Dyer, Hamilton, Edmeads, Pattenden.

Offline dobfarm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,793
  • Scarcliffe village Derbyshire
    • View Profile
Re: 1891 Census for Swansea Look-up Please(Wilson).
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 24 December 09 02:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi Rom

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1855
Maiden Name Reference
WILSON William James  :-\ Hulme  :-\ Manchester   HUL/65/31 


1881c
William WILSON Boarder W Male 25 Holme, Lancashire, England Press Sugar Minder
22 Oriental Rd West Ham, Essex, England
There is not a Holme in Lanc's only yorks  but there is Hulme in Manchester

Likes travel

Births Mar 1855 
 
Wilson  William James     Chorlton  8c 555


same entry or two?? phone Manchester Reg office

Superintendent Registrar, Register Office, Heron House, 47 Lloyd Street, Manchester, M2 5LE

find phone number in google search

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi?county=lancashire#surname


plus this chap north west greater Manchester

Baptisms: 29 Apr 1855 St John the Evangelist, Farnworth With Kearsley, Lancashire, England
William James Wilson - Son of James Wilson & Mary
    Abode: Farnworth
    Occupation: Joiner
    Baptised by: William Haslam

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

Ignore this if you have seen these before

Dobby
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Any transcription of information does not identify or prove anything.
Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline Romilly

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,431
    • View Profile
Re: 1891 Census for Swansea Look-up Please(Wilson).
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 24 December 09 10:27 GMT (UK) »

Many thanks dobfarm,

I will check them out. (I hadn't come across the Sugar Minder chap before).

Best Wishes, Romilly.
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Researching:
Wilson, Warren, Dulston, Hooper, Duffin, Petty, Rees, Davies, Williams, Newman, Dyer, Hamilton, Edmeads, Pattenden.

Offline dobfarm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,793
  • Scarcliffe village Derbyshire
    • View Profile
Re: 1891 Census for Swansea Look-up Please(Wilson).
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 24 December 09 17:39 GMT (UK) »
Hi Romilly

You'll have a mountain of possibles with so many Wilson's!
and not all use their middle name on the censuses. Marriage certificate info is not always Right as I had father Charles and witness George on my Gt granddad's marriage certificate. We knew from the family Gt Granddad was George, all other info census and other doc's supported this. Also my Granddad  birth can not be found in GRO Births but have his Bap. Then the translated Giro are not complete and Ance*t*y. Com have a search where you can check the full complete original View by quarters of a year and year by year. Last my brother died aged 6 in 1948 and his death was not in any Giro search or the complete but the local register office had it. Therefore would again advice contacting Manchester register office.

Going back to your wedding cert in Wales the occupation house Painter could mean many things as a trade-odd job man who painted houses- or was painting a house for a friend while out of work or his own. The fact he put Manchester I think that would be exact though! the Preston William James Wilson born Preston Father William born 1860 I  think this could be your William and father as Preston around 1990/1900 was greater Manchester and still is. The other pos is an unknown William James and again Manchester Register office. The Hulme one could be yours but that is a £7 gamble at your disgression.

Not Easy with common names

Merry Xmas and a Happy New year and maybe you will find your William J Willson :D

Never give up hope  ;)

Best regards Dave :)
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Any transcription of information does not identify or prove anything.
Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth