Author Topic: A Tailor  (Read 12877 times)

Offline willow154

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,202
  • Mum - Such love
    • View Profile
Re: A Tailor
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 12 February 09 14:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi cundy,

Thanks for that :)

Now, I wonder if this could be him:
Post Office Directory of Cumberland and Westmoreland 1873
Johnson, John   tailor and draper, Station street, Keswick
Then, under Tailors:
Johnson, John  Station Street, Keswick.

Also, under tailors, there is a Johnston J, Solway Street, Silloth, Carlisle - so we need to see which fits best -  if either!

So, now we need to see if we can track them down on the 1871 census, cundy. (And, see if they are still there in 1881 - in which case it is neither of them).

Hope this does help.
Paulene :)







Offline cundy

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: A Tailor
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 12 February 09 17:42 GMT (UK) »

 hello willow154,
                      Keswick seems along way from Kirklinton. I cann't find his death record or his marriage.
                     Cheers cundy.

Offline willow154

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,202
  • Mum - Such love
    • View Profile
Re: A Tailor
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 12 February 09 19:27 GMT (UK) »
Hi cundy,
I've been looking through the 1871 census, but haven't been able to find anything on the two tailors.
Can you tell me his daughter's name (your great-grandmother) + any information you have for her, please. Pre -1 880 that is.
Thanks.
Paulene :)

Offline cundy

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: A Tailor
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 12 February 09 20:12 GMT (UK) »
 
  Hello willow154,
                   Mary ann johnstone b abt july 1860 at Kirklinton.She gave her sons the middle name MOFFAT so you would think that this was her mothers family name. In the 1861 census RG9,piece3912,folio71, page10 you have Elizabeth moffett [ johnston ] and Mary ann johnston 9mths the father seems to absent.
         Cheers cundy.


Offline behindthefrogs

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,756
  • EDLIN
    • View Profile
Re: A Tailor
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 12 February 09 23:22 GMT (UK) »
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline willow154

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,202
  • Mum - Such love
    • View Profile
Re: A Tailor
« Reply #14 on: Friday 13 February 09 00:43 GMT (UK) »
Hi cundy,
Have you found Mary Ann in the 1871 census?
I looked for her and her mother in the 1861, with your information.
Also looked for the two tailors I found in the directories, but without success - names and ages did not fit.
Found one John, with rightish age, but he was an apprentice nailor, not tailor.
So, finally looked at Mary Ann's mother again. Although she has the two names on the 1861 census, it looks as if she is Elizabeth Moffet, and the alternative name I think is purely given because the daughter's name is given as Mary A Johnston (please correct me if you think otherwise).
Anyway, I found her on the 1871 census, living with her brother William - I think they are both on her father's farm, but the farm has now passed into her brother's hands. On this census her status is given as unmarried. So, could this be the reason that we cannot find the marriage? Did she ever get married? Did she give the daughter the name of the child's father, even though she never married him? (I have a child born in my husband's tree whose mother recorded a father and her maiden name, address, etc - I cannot find any evidence of the marriage of the couple before the child's birth. The house where they lived at the time of the child's birth was 'uninhabited' sixth months later when the 1881 census was taken. And on that census the child was living in a different county with her mother's aunt, and the mother was working in the nearest large town - status unmarried. I can only conclude in this case that she made it all up, so the children might avoid the stigma of illegitimacy).
John might well have been her father, and poor law records (eg. Maintenance Orders, etc) may indicate this.
However, we still don't know what happened to John born in 1838 after 1851. Perhaps he is the tailor in Marylebone.
I see that by 1871 there are two other children in the household with Elizabeth Moffat, besides Mary - William, born 1862, and Jane, born 1867. All the three children have the surname Johnston.
Bit of a mystery, to say the least, cundy.
Do you have Mary Ann's birth certificate, by any chance?
I'm just going to have a look at Elizabeth on the 1881.
Tell me your thoughts. * My own thoughts are only possibilites, in the absence of finding anything concrete - and may be completely wrong. You must think things through for yourself, cundy. See what you can find.
Paulene :)
P.S. In case you haven't found Elizabeth in 1871:
RG10 Piece 5214 Folio 67 P. 20   (Elizabeth Moffat).


Offline willow154

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,202
  • Mum - Such love
    • View Profile
Re: A Tailor
« Reply #15 on: Friday 13 February 09 01:30 GMT (UK) »
Back again,
Right - 1881 census:
Elizabeth still living with brother William - now described as 'married', and calling herself Elizabeth Johnston. Her eldest children, William and Mary (Mary Ann), have left home. But, what is more interesting/confusing is that there is another 'niece', called Margaret, aged one year! Margaret's birth was registered Sep qtr of 1878.
And, you say it says John Johnston, tailor, father is deceased on Mary Ann's marriage certificate in 1879. :-\
If John was indeed the father of all of these children it would seem that his death would be between Jan 1878 (if he died after Margaret was conceived) and Mary Ann's marriage. (I'm not sure which marriage it is).
What do you think, cundy? Hope I'm not complicating matters for you.
Paulene :)

Offline willow154

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,202
  • Mum - Such love
    • View Profile
Re: A Tailor
« Reply #16 on: Friday 13 February 09 01:46 GMT (UK) »
1891:
Elizabeth JOHNSON still living with brother, William, (who looks as if he has an interesting occupation)- status 'widow'.

Offline willow154

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,202
  • Mum - Such love
    • View Profile
Re: A Tailor
« Reply #17 on: Friday 13 February 09 02:09 GMT (UK) »
cundy,
I don't know if you live in Cumbria, or have visited the Longtown area; but I just came across this great site, and thought if you have not seen it already that it might be of use to you - hope so.
Paulene :)

http://website.orange.co.uk/website/owu.domestic_disputes.87968120486411dd88a2ead75444eb08.32.html