1851/1861 Census - Southwark - John Holland(s) Age 51/61

[fourdjones]

I am looking for a John Hollands (maybe spelt Holland) in Southwark. He was born in Kent and his wife may be Sarah. I have him at 115 Union Street in the 1871 Census, aged 71. However, as he starts out as a farmer in Luddesdown in 1841 I need plenty of data to get him transformed into a coffee house keeper in Southwark in 1871.

Thanks for any help you can give.

Richard

Note: this is my absolute first post so if my subject line is just too confusing please say so. It certainly looks confusing now I've typed it.

[Barbara F]

Richard

I can't find your people at 115 Union Street in 1861 and unfortunately I do not have an index as yet.

Someone may have access to a partial index for 1851 or 1861  which could help you track your family down.  Otherwise I can only suggest obtaining certificates for any family births, marriages or deaths which occurred near to a census date so that you can get an address. Unfortunately, as I have found to my cost, some families still manage to move between the event and the census

Barbara F

[Rick]

Richard

I cannot find them in the following indexes.

1851 - Southwark, St Olave, St Thomas, St John Horsleydown.

1861 - Southwark, Christchurch, St Saviour & St Thomas.

I am afraid that I do not the indexes for the rest of Southwark.

Sorry
Rick

[fourdjones]

Thank you all for your replies. In this instance negative evidence is as important as positive. Sadly, this weakens my case materially for this being the right person unless I can find him elsewhere between Kent and London but it's not obvious where to look just now.

Thanks again.

[Biker]

Hello,

Just wondering if you've found John yet?

There are two possibilities in 1861.

1. John Holland. Born Isle of Sheppey, Kent, living in Stepney, London and is a Commercial Traveller (wine trade). Wife Amelia and family.

2. John Hollands. Born Chart Sutton? Kent, living in Sutton Valence, Kent and is a Grocer and Baker.  He's a widower, with daughter Cordelia and servants.

Will provide full info if these may be yours.

Regards
Jonathan

Can provide family details

[Valda]

This man is probably to old but he does have a Luddesdown connection
1861 census RG9 469 folio 107 Turnpike Road Kingsdown  Kent   
John Hollands 1781  Luddesdown, Kent,  Head  Unmarried Farm Labourer
James Hollands 1828  Stanstead, Kent,  Son  Unmarried Farm Labourer
Elizabeth Hollands 1831  Stanstead, Kent,  Daughter Unmarried

On the same census George Hollands born circa 1832 Longfield, a shepherd is with his family in Luddesdown. Visiting him is Charlotte Hollands born Longfield circa 1838.
John Hollands born Longfield circa 1822 a farm servant and his large family are in Fawkham Kent.

Regards
Valda

[fourdjones]

This John Hollands born Luddesdown is very interesting, notwithstanding his age. The family clearly has a strong association with the area that goes back before the time I'm looking at.

The George is the son of the John I'm looking for. And the John at Fawkham is my gggrandfather.

Just a few more dots and I reckon I could join 'em up to make a picture.

Thanks for this.

Richard

[Biker]

Hello

I'm doing a bit of housekeeping and wondering if you are still looking for this information?  If so has any further information come to light in the meantime?

As this is an old request, if we don't hear from you in a while, I'll move it to the Completed section.

Regards
Biker 

[fourdjones]

Hi and thanks again to the people who replied. I found the record of this John Hollands's burial in the Luddesdown Parish Register where it gave his place of residence as Southwark so that pretty much ties that up.

I have found much more information about him in Parish Registers. In case anyone here has missed it http://cityark.medway.gov.uk have most of the North Kent parish registers on-line as scanned images. As access is completely free you can spend hours and get a sore mouse finger ;-) Click on "Medway Ancestors".

regards to all,

Richard