Frederick Houghton - Medal Card

[joy58]

Can anyone help please. I know my grandfather was in the Rifle Brigade. He was wounded on the Somme, spent time in hospital in Hove, patched up and was going to be sent to North Africa.

He decided he wasn't going to die of dysentery so overstayed a leave, spent some time in the glasshouse and was then sent back to France.

I have found a Medal Card but not sure it's him. It's the only one for a Frederick Houghton, Rifle Brigade, 3rd Btn, Reg No S/16342. The discharge says Para 2B.1, 392XVI K.R. I know the second bit means discharged because of being unfit. Can anyone tell me what the first bit means?

Also, are there any records of his disciplinary (I think there may have been more than one!) or hospital records?

Many thanks.

[km1971]

Hi Joy

I think there are two army orders here: AO 392 of KR (Kings Regulations) cover reasons for early discharge, and as you say (xvi) is "No longer physically fit for war service". Sometimes an S or W were added for sickness or wounding.

I cannot find it at present, but I believe that Para 2B (1) is part of the AO for qualifying for the issue of the Silver War Badge. It is unusual to find both mentioned on the same card, as if you were discharged early due to (xvi) you automatically received the SWB.

You can usually tell that a SWB was issued as it will say either 'SWB List' or just 'List' usually near the bottom left corner.

Defaulters Book and Medical Records form part of the man's service record. If they are not there they have been culled. Ancestry have published the surviving records for the Hs, so if his are not present, they were lost during WW2 bombing. If he received a SWB you should check the pension files on Ancestry as well.

Does the medal card include his dates of enlistment and discharge? If not you will have to go to Kew and look at the SWB roll. Or maybe a RB specialist on a site such as the Great War Forum can tell you when his number was issued. Para 392 was superceeded in August 1918, so he was probably discharged before then.

Are details of the Victory Medal and British War Medal listed? If not there should be a second card for him.

http://www.1914-1918.net/rb.htm - the 3 Bn RB stayed in France, so if he was about to be sent to Egypt it would have meant a transfer to another battalion. So he could have gone AWOL for a few days until after their boat sailed. My GGF did it in the 1870s to stay with his family.

http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/great-war-on-land/britain-allies/433-silver-war-badge.html

Ken

[mmm45]

2B1 means he served overseas and was an "other rank" rather than an officer.

Kens got the rest of it.

Ady

[joy58]

Thanks to both of you for the info. Yes, the 2 medals are listed on the card but nothing else. Unfortunately, I;ve never seen the medals as he was so disgusted with the war and his treatment, when the medals arrived he threw them in the dustbin!

He was certainly unfit - I don't know how they sent him back to France as he was in and out of hospital into the 1920s because of the shrapnel wounds to his legs.

There aren't any enlistment or discharge papers at Kew so I'll probably not get his war history. A shame but it doesn't hinder my research.

Thanks again.
Joy

[km1971]

There aren't any enlistment or discharge papers at Kew so I'll probably not get his war history. A shame but it doesn't hinder my research.

Not true Joy. It would be easier if you had posted the MIC, but you have the link to the 3rd Rifle Brigade's service during WW1. We know he went overseas in 1916 or later because he was not awarded the 19145-1915 Star. If his MIC does not give his date of enlistment and discharge you can get that from Kew. If you step back a bit you will find out virtually everything that would have been on his service papers.

The war diary of the 3/RB is also probably available from Kew or another researcher.

Ken

[joy58]

Thanks Ken

I've just found the medal card and attach. There is something else I'd forgotten about at the bottom. What additional records are there to look at at Kew?

[km1971]

The 'WW1' service papers being put online by Ancestry are from the WO363 microfilms. They have done the Hs, so if his are not on Ancestry they will not be on the microfilms, and were lost during WW2.

The bit on the bottom - 'List..' - is the reference to the SWB list.  This will give you the number stamped on his SWB, plus his age at discharge. Other than that - nothing you do not already have.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp

Ken

[Andy Pay]

Here's his Silver War Badge roll for you, giving date of enlistment, when he was discharged and the badge number.

Andy

[joy58]

Thank you SO much Andy. From his age (including the months), I'm almost 100% certain it is my grandfather.

Now I have the regimental number, what can I do from here? Will his war record be recorded at the regimental HQ or somewhere else? I'm particularly interested in seeing anything on his wounds, hospital stays - or his stay in the glasshouse!

Many thanks
Joy