Author Topic: Confused with Welsh counties  (Read 5716 times)

Offline Roobarb

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Confused with Welsh counties
« on: Friday 27 March 09 16:31 GMT (UK) »
I'm rubbish at geography and am even more confused with the Welsh counties and what they were previously.

The marriage I'm looking at took place in 1864 in the Bedwelty district, which FreeBMD tells me was in Monmouthshire. Assuming that the bride or groom had been born around the area where they were married (and I know that's a big assumption!) would the marriage be likely to have taken place there for a bride from Cwmavon, Glamorganshire and a groom from Nantyglo, Monmouthshire?

I've looked at the places on a map but I'm just going round in circles. Help, please!   
Bell, Salter, Street - Devon, Middlesbrough.
Lickess- North Yorkshire, Middlesbrough.
Etherington - North Yorks and Durham.
Barker- North Yorks
Crooks- Durham
Forster- North Yorks/Durham
Newsam, Pattison, Proud - North Yorks.
Timothy, Griffiths, Jones - South Wales

Offline Mum44

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Re: Confused with Welsh counties
« Reply #1 on: Friday 27 March 09 16:36 GMT (UK) »


They may now have been living where they were born   ;)

Have you got either of them in the 1861 census  ???

Were they living near Bedwelty then  ???
Census information is Crown Copyright from TNA.
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Kent:  Float,  Cutbush. 
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Offline Gadget

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Re: Confused with Welsh counties
« Reply #2 on: Friday 27 March 09 16:42 GMT (UK) »
Hi

 Nantyglo (as Aberystruth) was transferred from Abergavenny to Bedwelty in 1861

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/abergavenny.html

 so at least the groom's birth Parish fits.

Regards

Gadget
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Offline Roobarb

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Re: Confused with Welsh counties
« Reply #3 on: Friday 27 March 09 16:51 GMT (UK) »
I don't have either of them in the 1861 census, I haven't looked yet as I was trying at the moment to determine whether I have the right couple at all. Unfortunately the groom's name was Thomas Jones!

                                             

Thanks for the info Gadget, my couple are looking a bit more likely.
Bell, Salter, Street - Devon, Middlesbrough.
Lickess- North Yorkshire, Middlesbrough.
Etherington - North Yorks and Durham.
Barker- North Yorks
Crooks- Durham
Forster- North Yorks/Durham
Newsam, Pattison, Proud - North Yorks.
Timothy, Griffiths, Jones - South Wales


Offline Arranroots

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Re: Confused with Welsh counties
« Reply #4 on: Friday 27 March 09 19:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi Roobarb

Sadly, large bits of the 1861 census are missing for the area anyway, so you might be unlucky.  Have you got them in other censuses, to try to find a match?  I am a strong believer that JONESes aren't any more trouble than other family names sometimes, cos they tended to add interesting first names for at least some of their children.

I have just received a marriage cert for a couple who married in Bedwellty parish church, despite both living in Rhymney at the time (according to the cert).  I have concluded that one or both of them was working nearer St Sannan - maybe communitng weekly - and couldn't get time off to go home!

Certainly my couple was buried in Rhymney eventually, so they obviously hadn't fallen out with the Church ther!

Kind regards, Arranroots  ;)
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN - HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD - GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS - WIL: WEBB, SALTER - RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS - GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY - MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD - SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON - IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK)

Offline Gadget

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Re: Confused with Welsh counties
« Reply #5 on: Friday 27 March 09 21:08 GMT (UK) »

 I am a strong believer that JONESes aren't any more trouble than other family names sometimes, cos they tended to add interesting first names for at least some of their children.


Well,, it might be different in the South but mine were John, Robert, Richard, Catherine, Margaret, Mary and Jane (repeated  :( )*. It was the ones with the less common surnames that used interesting first names  ::)

I have managed to trace most of them but i was very pleased to get to the patronymics  :D


Gadget - with  eight Jones lines  :)

* PS - forgot Ellen and Martha - I suppose they're a bit more uncommon  :-\
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Offline Roobarb

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Re: Confused with Welsh counties
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 28 March 09 17:52 GMT (UK) »
The whole issue of my Jones ancestors has become more and more confusing.
Margaret Ann Jones was where I hit my long time brick wall. She was married a few months after the 1891 census and gave her age on marriage as 21 and her father's name as Thomas (deceased). Despite trying every possible permutation of hers, her husband and daughter's names, I have never succeeded in finding them in the 1901 census. Neither did the helpful lady in my local reference library. That meant that I had three Margaret Ann Jones in Middlesbrough to choose from in the 1891 census. I was putting my money on the 18 year old who was born in Bishop Auckland and was delighted when I recently found the family in the 1911 census, which confirmed my thoughts. In the meanwhile I had found a marriage, also in 1891, of the people who lived at the address she had given on her marriage (she wasn't listed there in the census). I'm pretty certain that that was her mother, also names Margaret. I sent for Margaret senior's marriage cert which said that she was Margaret Jones, a widow and her father's name was David Jacob. I have not been able to find a marriage of Margaret Jacob to Thomas Jones at the right time. Armed with my new info about Margaret Ann I sent for her birth cert - I had narrowed it down by finding what I thought was her family in the previous censuses. The cert came with her father Thomas Jones, Puddler - correct, and mother Margaret, previously Timothy!
The only marriage I can find at the right time of Margaret Timothy to Thomas Jones is the Bedwelty one in 1864. However, since posting this yesterday I have realised that if this is the correct marriage, Margaret senior would have only been age 15 when she married. Her age on her marriage cert and the censuses suggest that she was born around 1849 in Cwmavon.
Sorry if this sounds confusing but I am confused! I'm sure I'll use some logic andget my head around it eventually!

Bell, Salter, Street - Devon, Middlesbrough.
Lickess- North Yorkshire, Middlesbrough.
Etherington - North Yorks and Durham.
Barker- North Yorks
Crooks- Durham
Forster- North Yorks/Durham
Newsam, Pattison, Proud - North Yorks.
Timothy, Griffiths, Jones - South Wales

Offline Gadget

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Re: Confused with Welsh counties
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 28 March 09 18:20 GMT (UK) »
Hi Roobarb

Cwmavon would be part of Michaelston which was in the Neath RD. There is this birth reg for a Margaret Timothy:


Sept q, 1848, Neath, vol 26 p 500


Gadget
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Offline Roobarb

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Re: Confused with Welsh counties
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 28 March 09 18:25 GMT (UK) »
Ah, thanks Gadget. So she'd be a bit older then, although not exactly a geriatric bride!
Bell, Salter, Street - Devon, Middlesbrough.
Lickess- North Yorkshire, Middlesbrough.
Etherington - North Yorks and Durham.
Barker- North Yorks
Crooks- Durham
Forster- North Yorks/Durham
Newsam, Pattison, Proud - North Yorks.
Timothy, Griffiths, Jones - South Wales