Author Topic: Fromelles missing - William Wass  (Read 21942 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Fromelles missing - William Wass
« Reply #36 on: Monday 15 June 09 00:32 BST (UK) »
Hi, I have also tried to get response and not heard back either. 

And, like you I have checked that Fromelles website, and notice that it has been updated.  I really don't know anymore than you, but I do know they are all volunteers, so perhaps they are snowed under with info and are just working their way through.  Probably concentrating on making contact with the descendants and protecting their privacy.

Perhaps the last item on their "to do" list would be to try to find time to keep us up to date.

JM
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Offline SBRX

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Re: Fromelles missing - William Wass
« Reply #37 on: Monday 15 June 09 11:42 BST (UK) »
Yes you are probably right in terms of the amount of work they are doing. Intersting reply from the Australian Archives section received today. See below. Any idea why their are no records of William in the naturalisation index?

Regards
SBRX 

Dear Mr Brunt,
Thank you for your request for immigration records relating to William Wass.
The National Archives of Australia’s collection consists of Australian commonwealth government records, mainly dating from 1901. I have checked our collection catalogue RecordSearch and naturalisation index but have not identified any records relating to the above person’s immigration to Australia.  The only file we hold is his WW1 service file which I believe you already have a copy of.
I’m sorry we could not be of more assistance to help you research this man.
 ???

Offline majm

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Re: Fromelles missing - William Wass
« Reply #38 on: Monday 15 June 09 12:53 BST (UK) »
Yep, makes perfect sense to me.

Australian Citizenship did NOT actually start to happen until 1948.  Naturalisation was for "foreigners", ie people NOT born in the Empire !  So, for example Aime Verpillot who was among the lads who fell at Fromelles needed to be naturalised before he could enlist.  He was Swiss.   

My grandfather, born in the Colony of New South Wales in 1880's died in the State of New South Wales in 1940.  He too enlisted in the AIF, his papers show he was "British Subject, native born".  To me that means he was born in Australia -(it does not mean he was a "native" with Aboriginal heritage) and thus my grandfather was born a British Subject, so to his parents, one born in NSW, the other in London - Just remember that  Australia became a Dominion with the Empire after WW1. When these volunteers enlisted, well - it was simply a federation of six British colonies, united under the Empire.  (Sun never sets on the Union Jack - that era).

Its just the historical difference/oversight where 21st Century teaching indicates Australia became a NATION in 1901.  It was still a Dominion even during WW2, so its probably better to consider that Australia STARTED down the path of Nationhood with the 1901 Federation of the Commonwealth of Australia, where six separate British Colonies were "federated" into one 'national identity'.    

Briefly, and I could be mistaken with some dates or the full and proper explanation, but as I recall, After the 1901 Federation of those six colonies, well ummm It took nearly half a century for the concept of Australian "citizenship" to be separated from "British Subject".  Aussie soldiers in WW2 were British Subjects, they were not Australian Citizens in any legal sense. That happened after WW2.  And it was only a couple of decades ago (1980's) that the separation was further legislated in both the UK and Australian Parliaments - when Britain entered ECU or about then, that Australian born children lost any "British Subject" status, except if their parents were actually born in the British Isles. 

The oath of Allegience that the Australian Defence Forces took back in WW1, and still now in 2009, well its to to the Head of State, and the head of state of Australia is Queen Elizabeth II, and that's the way our constitution has been ever since Queen Victoria signed it off.   Australia is a constitutional monarchy, our Prime Minister is also one of  Her Majesty's Prime Ministers.  We are part of the (British) Commonwealth of Nations.

So when William Wass enlisted in the AIF (Australian IMPERIAL Forces) he would not have needed to be naturalised, as he was already a British Subject.   Hope that helps, and hope others reading this will understand that there are many details I have overlooked in trying to be brief.

JM
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Offline SBRX

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Re: Fromelles missing - William Wass
« Reply #39 on: Monday 15 June 09 15:11 BST (UK) »
Many thanks for the explanation JM it will certainly help with future research.
Regards SBRX. p.s Please let me know if you find out anything more about William's relative.


Offline Tjapaltjarri

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Re: Fromelles missing - William Wass
« Reply #40 on: Wednesday 07 October 09 18:50 BST (UK) »
I see now, having waded through pages of census and BMD indexes for Mellors and Mottashaws  ::)  that there is a source for William Wass mitochondrial DNA via the children of his sister Lizzie's daughter and that these are on G** R** and have probably already been made aware - so this thread is well and truly covered.

Best,

Tjapaltjarri
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Offline mle

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Re: Fromelles missing - William Wass
« Reply #41 on: Monday 02 August 10 00:07 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I was just resesrching Sgt William Wass. I'm a school student from NSW and attended the Fromelles Ceremony 2 weeks ago.

I am researching Sgt William Wass for a historical investigation, in my modern history class.

I am aware that he was still unidentified.

I know this is an old thread, but I wondered if this was all the information everyone had discovered about him,
and if there has been any developements since then, I'd greatly appreciate a bit of a run down.

Thanks for all that you posted.
It will be a huge help in my assessment task.

<3mle

Offline fedelmar

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Re: Fromelles missing - William Wass
« Reply #42 on: Monday 02 August 10 00:34 BST (UK) »
What you find on the three pages of this thread is all that is known of Wass at this stage.

Good luck with your project.

Bright Blessings
Sandra

www.fromelles.net
Essex: PLAYLE, WHITEHEAD, PAWSEY, FARRAR, HYMUS
Cornwall: POND, DUNGEY, WILLIAMS
Kent: AUSTIN, ROSER, WILSON
Sussex: ROSER, WILSON

Offline majm

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Re: Fromelles missing - William Wass
« Reply #43 on: Monday 02 August 10 02:53 BST (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat

You were at the Fromelles Ceremony..... 

On  http://www.anzacday.org.au/justsoldiers/justsoldiers.html there's six page pdf file for Sgt Wass, I do hope this will help with your research for your assignment. 

Perhaps your younger and fresher eyes will help find a clue that has been previously overlooked and may lead to identification.   

Cheers,  JM




The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline Tjapaltjarri

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Re: Fromelles missing - William Wass
« Reply #44 on: Monday 02 August 10 07:40 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I suspect that Wass was not amongst the fallen who are now resting in the Pheasant Wood cemetery.

Certainly his name was not amongst those on the list of soldiers with no relative contact given on the CWGC Fromelles project pages. http://www.cwgc.org/fromelles/scripts/download.php?file=334

Is this Australian Priority list going to be updated in the light of the positive identifications that have been made?

The means by which relatives have been found has been a bit 'hit and miss' ( see theAustralian MOD's website http://www.defence.gov.au/army/fromelles/General.asp - note the typo - 'relies of' instead of 'relies on' in the section 'How many soldiers are registered on the database? - and the way that the results of the enquiries are made public has, so far as I am concerned, left something to be desired. It would be helpful to know for instance which soldiers have definitely been excluded from amongst those now lying in the new cemetery; once the existing relatives have been informed it should be possible to indicate this on a list without breaching the confidentiality of relatives.

The same web page points to the list of missing listed on the Memorial walls at VC corner as being one of the starting points for compiling the overall lists but there are at least 6 soldiers now buried at Pheasant Wood who were not on that list and two soldiers who had earlier been given named gravestones elsewhere but have subsequently been identified as resting in the new Fromelles cemetery.

Best wishes for your project,

Howard
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