Author Topic: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions  (Read 11695 times)

Offline danuslave

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 09 August 09 12:01 BST (UK) »
Quote
I've NO Interest in Ancestry-----Never had

In that case I'm even more impressed!  Look on it as an exercise in keeping the grey matter working - isn't retirement wonderful   :D :D

Linda
MOXHAM/MOXAM - Wiltshire & Surrey
SKEATS - Surrey
BRETT - Kent & County Durham
and
SWINBANK - anywhere

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Offline dobfarm

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 09 August 09 12:18 BST (UK) »
Thanks for these very prompt and informative replies - they are really helping me to understand the geography of what seems like a complicated area. Since there were so many Horsfalls living in Stansfield, Langfield etc areas in the 18th and 19th centuries their address (as sometimes recorded in Wilson's register transcriptions) is proving important in tracing which were my Horsfalls.
By 1851 my own direct Horsfall ancestors had moved to farms in Lancashire (Little Marsden and Whitworth), though I'm sure they had left oodles of relatives back in Todmorden.
Thanks again - your expertise is much appreciated
Ian in Cornwall

Langfield farm is at Makinshole above Millwood Todmorden and Standsfield Hall and Standsfield is Todmorden
Little marden is over the hill at Nelson-Colne & Witworth over the other hill South of Todmorden above Rochdale
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Any transcription of information does not identify or prove anything.
Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline dobfarm

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 09 August 09 12:29 BST (UK) »
Quote
I've NO Interest in Ancestry-----Never had

In that case I'm even more impressed!  Look on it as an exercise in keeping the grey matter working - isn't retirement wonderful   :D :D

Linda

Yep! Yanks! took over our firm back in 2000 and Waved Dollars about like leaves drop in the fall! Big Company  Pension and Redundancy payments combind together. Me and my brother retired at 50 and Bro 56 left that factory like a bolt out of hell!*>>>> Still in a Daze of unreality 9 years on.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Any transcription of information does not identify or prove anything.
Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline dobfarm

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 11 August 09 23:21 BST (UK) »
I've been to Wakefield archives and booked a hour on a Film/Fiche reader

I have checked Ebenezer none conformist Bapt's chapel 1755-1775 Heptonstall ; l also tried
Todmorden same years - Nothing on any of Susan-James-Abraham-Sarah-Betty :-
Nothing on the Names 'Horsfall' dad Abraham.

Tried the Wilson Transcription Books and John 1755 bapt -Richard bapt -1758 -Philip 1774
 Bapt's are all there in Wilsons book! but there are no other names of dad Abraham.

The Fiche is unreadable in a lot of Bapt's at Stone cross & Heptonstall Chapels 1755 to 1768 but improved 1769 onwards.

Having pulled a few strings I got to see the original Heptonstall & Stone cross Parish register book
for those year! It's in a very poor state full stop. There are lots of funny place names and
 for some daft reason the entries are as following example

Blogs J'S (Little S top corner) S W'm  Blogs Baptism Toytown Dec _-

All Hyphenated but puts Surname twice and this coupled with near faded/Mouse holes/Damp marks
very faint writing and Fancy scribble

This is in No way a Transcriptions by me and I disclaim anything other than it is only possible entries.
These seem to read as below

James Horsfall s of h'b( small) Horsefall Bapt March 30th 1760 Wad Hep

Suzan Horsfall D of A --        Horsfall  bapt March 28th 1766 Wad Hep

       Betty Horsfall d A Bapt July 12th 1765 wad Hep ( That all there is) ?

Sarah Horsefall od fb (No date number) March 1762 or 64 Wad --This was in a really poor state and had
to use a green Strove light torch across the page at an angle

A Hors--ll S A ba-t 10 --g 1770 wad - Make what you wan't of that

All I'll say is! No will argue! only You? or prove different! As Nobody is daft enough to attempt it only me! The unreadable!

Quote:_
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains no matter how improbable must be the truth?" ;- unquote- Sir Authur Conan Doyle

The GAP!  RICHARD BAPT 1758* _ PHILIP BAPT 1774 >WHY? as above - Quote!
 




Dobby
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Any transcription of information does not identify or prove anything.
Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth


Offline yelkcub

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 12 August 09 11:45 BST (UK) »
Hello Dave –
I can’t thank you enough for these transcriptions, and for taking the time and trouble to attempt to decipher what sound like almost illegible entries in the parish registers.
I suppose that, given the state of the records, we will never know for certain, but the entries you managed to find certainly sound as if they might be the records of my Horsfall ancestors which are not found in Wilson.

James Horsfall s of h'b (small) Horsefall bapt March 30th 1760 Wad Hep
[it is not impossible that  h’b (superscript) = Ab = Abraham]
Suzan Horsfall D of A --        Horsfall  bapt March 28th 1766 Wad Hep
[D of A = daughter of Abraham Horsfall?]
Betty Horsfall d A Bapt July 12th 1765 wad Hep
[d A = daughter of Abraham Horsfall?]
A Hors--ll S A ba-t 10 --g 1770 wad –[SA = son of Abraham?]

First of all, it’s interesting that ‘Wad’ appears at the end of each of these entries. I take this to mean that these children’s father lived in Wadsworth, Heptonstall (Wadsworth is now an area just to the east of Hebden Bridge). I know that Abraham Horsfall and his wife Martha lived at Pickovergate from at least 1774 (the Wilson record of Philip’s birth – father, Abraham, Pickovergate, Stansfield) – but there’s no reason why they shouldn’t have lived at Wadsworth before then. The earliest two records (from Wilson):
John (1755) – the father, Abraham, was a webster (weaver) of Eastfield.
Richard (1758) – the father, Abraham, was a webster of Stansfield.
The fact that all the names you found are names of Abraham’s ‘missing’ children adds weight to the supposition that they belonged to the same family. They are certainly all in the right timeframe.
Again – we may never know the truth, but we’ll regard it as a workable hypothesis that these records you were kind enough – and patient enough – to find are likely to refer to the children named by Abraham Horsfall in his will of 1807, but who are missing from Wilson’s list.
With thanks and best wishes
Ian

Offline dobfarm

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 12 August 09 12:40 BST (UK) »
Hi Ian

First I know you feeling of pre 1837 little info, too many common names BMDs after relative good census years  -gro info. going to very poor info to grab onto.
These manki old registers-little info - Marriage clue of  Banns marriage are hopless - though Licence marriage by Alligation do give age as mostley accurate! and a few names.

Abraham b 1755-75 marriage to Betty Brierly 1786 Heptonstall Looks a good bet! born about 1761  and even 1770 is Just in as my ancestor married his Step Aunty 36 at 14 years old (more 15) so anything possible there them days!*

The rest James ,Betty Susan and Sarah marriage. There are To many Marriages in general and bapts too other Parents.

Overseers records- Appenticeships- Landtax-Window tax-Tithe/Tides-Relief Rate for the poor and more - link to the exact place in bapts by elimination of others will help!* Bapt proving !!but the marriages by banns the most import need to go down the line of is just impossible unless there are Wills and they are in the census years as the 1790 maybe.

You are into Epistemology time and State in your tree a statement! like example below.

"This infomation is built on the best Epistemology information found and it is up to the reader of this! too judge! on information in this tree in respect of validity & accuracy or prove otherwise."


I'll keep an Eye out!

Dobby
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Any transcription of information does not identify or prove anything.
Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline dobfarm

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 12 August 09 13:08 BST (UK) »
Ps Hi again Ian.

Sometimes the most obvious is blinded to the complicated reseachers want/looking for absolute poof! meaning your Will has the names of Abraham Horsfall seniors siblings and You know there parents! so the exact bapt years are not that important as the marriages and circa about baptism year!  will do! Therefore put all your efforts on these marriages and census 1841c/51c to eliminate others on place  of exact residence if alive in census years.

Forget your Bapts for now!...Marriages

Dobby
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Any transcription of information does not identify or prove anything.
Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline dobfarm

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 13 August 09 04:13 BST (UK) »
Hi

Write to below

also put in the A2A search engine in the national archives

James Horsfall-(Horsefall-Horsfal)
find Court rolls 1796 Heptonstall
Horsfall (onits own)

Horsfall Heptonstall

Horsfall Todmorden Also other location you can think of.

John Goodchild Collection
Archon Code : 2494

 
 
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Website: http://www.wakefield.gov.uk/CultureAndLeisure/HistoricWakefield/Investigate/WhereToGo/JohnGoodchild/johngoodchildcollection.htm?pA=-1&pS=black&pW=-1
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Any transcription of information does not identify or prove anything.
Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline dobfarm

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 13 August 09 05:31 BST (UK) »
Uncanny coincidence ? or your Ab/Horsfall

 Hav'nt a bluming clue on this  ???, found in National archives A2A enter Abraham Horsfall in search 

Did he moved to Huddersfield (Relatives)1759ish and go back to Hep/todmorden 1773ish and the 1812/14 are only record date for document held and events are earlier. ???


Page of notes on the births of five children of the Horsfall family, removed from a book marked "Abraham Horsfall, Senr., Moldgreen, [his] Book"  P144/28/1 

logged in 1812/14?????
These documents are held at Bedfordshire and Luton Archives and Record Service

Contents:
Mold Green is in the parish of Kirkheaton near Huddersfield, Yorkshire - the connection with Lower Gravenhurst is unknown


You'll have no hair on your head left working this out  :-\

I'll check Todmorden Bapts out 1755 -1775


 glad to been of help!

Regards Dobby
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Any transcription of information does not identify or prove anything.
Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth