COMPLETED THANKS Smart/Bray

[kaydoubleu27]

Hi

I have the birth certificate for my ancestor Joseph Smart who was born on 23 january 1838 in Covenham St Bartholomew, Lincolnshire. It states on the certificate that his mother was Susannah Bray and father was Joseph Smart who's occupation was 'Brewer'. The informant was Elizabeth Bray who, from the IGI, I believe was Susannah's mother.

Susannah died in 1840 and I cannot find Joseph senior on the 1841 census and the only Joseph Smart that  I found was 6 months old, living in Fulstow and parents were the wrong names.

I would love to find out where Joseph senior was born and to find where they were on the 1841, 51 & 61 census but I can't find anything. Joseph junior eventually married in Goole and lived there for the rest of his life.

Can anyone advise me what to try next? I guess I will have to visit the archives in Lincoln to find Joseph & Susannah's marriage (assuming they did marry in Covenham) but that is a long way from me and as always, I just don't have the time right now .

Also if Joseph senior was a brewer - I would have thought that it wouldn't be easy to just dissapear - he must have had premises and the like, or was the term 'brewer' used more loosely in them days?

Any guidance/advice, as always, gratefully recieved.

Kim

[LizzieW]

Hi Kim

My 3 x g.grandfather was also listed as "brewer" on my 2 x g.grandfather's marriage cert and also on the 1841 census.  I did a bit of research into this, helped by a lady in Boston who had interest in brewers etc. and she tells me that it was a very generic term.  Apparently, there were many, many pubs at the time (not just in Lincolnshire), many of whom brewed their own beer, so it wasn't a case of having their own premises, like today with the big brewers.

Lizzie

[kaydoubleu27]

Hi Lizzie

Grrrrr, I thought that may be the case, thanks very much for the info though.

Oh well, he may well have just disappeared for a while then. I don't know if this would be relevant but on the 1881 or 1891 Joseph jnr put his birthplace as Ireland when it clearly wasn't but maybe thats where Mr Smart snr was from 

Thanks

Kim

[LizzieW]

Hi Again

There is a marriage of a Joseph Smart in Mar 1850 in Gainsborough ref vol.14, page 403, I wonder if this is "your" Joseph.

Lizzie

ps.  If Joseph jnr was only about 18 months old when his mum died and Joseph snr. took him to Ireland, he may well think that was where he was born.  Perhaps if you put a request on the Irish boards for someone to search for Joseph he might be found over there.

[kaydoubleu27]

Hi Lizzie

Thanks for the search - it could be 'my' Joseph but then again I can't tell and he still doesn't show up on the census.
His 1st wife Susannah's family had lived in Covenham St Bartholomew for generations so as Joseph (snr & jnr) weren't with them, or indeed in the area, I do think that maybe they'd both gone away after her death.
I'll try posting on the Ireland board as you suggested to see if I have any joy and do a route map to the Lincoln Archives!

Thanks again

Kim

[kaydoubleu27]

Hi again

This is especially to Lizzie who pondered and searched for me! I feel like a complete twit!!!

When I was first searching for this particular line I searched the census records and found Joseph Smart on the 1841 census, born the right time and in the right place so I merrily added him to my tree and his father and mother - Robert and Harriet. All fine until I got Josephs birth cert which threw the spanner in the works cos dads name was also Joseph and mums was Susannah (see postings below!).

I was just compsing a post for the Ireland boards and had a flash of inspiration  - I've got Josephs marriage cert so I checked and fathers name and on THAT its Robert    Oh hell, says I - I've sent off for the wrong birth cert but on checking the index it seems that no, I have got the right one. Now I'm actually using my brain - searched for Joseph seniors death and hey presto - there were two in the right area in 1840 which is when Susannah died.

I then checked the 1841 census to see where Robert Smart was born and found it was In Wainfleet, so checked the IGI and thats where I found Joseph born 1813 and Robert born 1814 to the same parents. So I'm guessing poor Jospeh jnr was orphaned in 1840 and then taken in by his uncle and aunt and they 'adopted' him.

If you have actually managed to follow my ramblings - well done! and thanks again to Lizzie and everyone who's read it.

By the way - do you think I can make the assumption on what I've outlined above?

Cheers

Kim

[Geoff-E]

Susanna was buried 6 March 1840 at CovStB aged 22 as BRAY - not SMART - so it seems they were not married.

There is no suitable marriage in my marriage index either.

It seems to me that Jos SMART (husband of Selina) gives age as
40 in 1881
30 in 1871

With this in mind, why is he not this one?
Births Mar 1841   
SMART    Joseph         Louth    14   501

who may have been aged 21 in the Navy in 1861, and 11 in 1851 with parents in Marchchapel.  In 1841, Joseph was aged 6m and the family are indexed as SANANT.

This Joseph SMART seems to disappear in the 1871 and later censuses (unless he is the one married to Selina).

EDIT:  I've just seen your last post ... the father in Marshchapel was called Robert.

Stop and think ... is there any way in which the 1838 certificate can be shown to be relevant?  If the answer is "No" then it's pointless weaving a theory around it.

Something else:  a Joseph Robert SMART was buried at Marshchapel 3 Dec 1838 aged 22.

[kaydoubleu27]

Thanks Geoff

The family that are indexed as Sanant are the one's that I thought were Joseph snr brother and family and the fact that the name is wrong will be why I couldn't find them.

I'm still unsure re the Joseph born 1838 because on the certificate that I've got it gives his mother as Susannah, as you've said, and Joseph jnr's eldest daughter was named Susannah (and I know that the Joseph who married Selina is my ancestor) although Robert and Harriets eldest daughter was also named Susannah 

However I do have to consider seriously the one that you found born in 1841 so I'll have to get that certificate and see.......far too many Josephs, Roberts and Susannah's!

Thanks for the searching that you've done - very much appreciated.

Kim

[kaydoubleu27]

Hi all especially Geoff

I have recieved the birth certificate for the 1841 Joseph Smart and thefather on it IS Robert Smart so I was weaving stories    (my family say I have an over active imagination!).

So it looks like I finally have the right birth cert.

Thanks for all your help

Kim