Mail Coach Yard in Shoreditch 1851?

[Novak20]

Hi,

I'm getting a bit confused about the whereabouts of 'Mail Coach Yard' in 1851. On my 1872 Godfrey edition map, it's left off Kingsland Road just before you get to Wellington Street, but I can't find it in the 1851 census.

The context is this: I'm looking for David Thacker and Henry Clarke and their families. I've found a definite match for the Thackers in 1861 at 5 Mail Coach Yard, and a possible match for the Clarkes at 2 Mail Coach Yard.

I also have a birth certificate for Sarah Ann Thacker from 1846 which locates the family at 4 Mail Coach Yard.

Now, I have located the Thackers in 1851 at 16 Leg of Mutton Yard (and a possible for the Clarkes at Labernum Terrace, which is nearby). But I'm still quite keen to see who is living in Mail Coach Yard in 1851.

Where did Mail Coach Yard go to between 1846 and 1861? I'm not certain where Leg of Mutton Yard is, but an C18 map puts Leg of Mutton Gardens very close to where Mail Coach Yard would later be. So it could be there's a street name change -- but then I'm puzzled as to why Mail Coach Yd would change to Leg of Mutton Yd in the 1840s and then back to Mail Coach in the 1850/60s.

Just to add to the confusion, Mail Coach Yd isn't in the 1841 census either!

Does anyone have resources on street name changes, or better maps than I do?

thanks,
Mike

[kennyb]

Hi Mike, there is only Leg of Mutton yard in the 51 Shoreditch index. Its of off Kingsland Rd between No's 154 and 155, that's the census walk order.I checked all the Thackers in Shoreditch, but none were in a Mail Coach Yard. Sorry i can't be of more use.
                                               Ken

[earley-bird]

http://booth.lse.ac.uk/cgi-bin/do.pl?sub=view_booth_only&args=531243,181522,2,large,1

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~genmaps/genfiles/COU_Pages/ENG_pages/lon.htm

these are the 2 map links I use . Any help ?


26" to  1 mile is pretty awesome. Takes a while to load all the street name index though
http://www.motco.com/map/81002/

[Cali369]

No clarity I'm afraid - just confirmation of the weirdness.

In the 1851 census two Paget families are also living in Leg of Mutton Lane - William (wid) and James & Sarah.  William has a son, also William, born 1842 and his birth cert says Mail Coach Yard.

Similarly in 1861 James & Sarah are living at 9 Mail Coach Yard

and William (b1842) is lodging with David Thacker at 5 Mail Coach Yard

Looks like our families were neighbours!

Hmmm - just searched on the 1841 census and finally found William and James in Leg of Mutton Lane (no thanks to some very dodgy transcribing).  James is married to Sarah.  William is married to Ann(a) and they have two children, Mary and William.  Which is odd because I have the birth cert for another William born in 1842 ??  Perhaps the first William child died and they had another....

So could it be that both Mail Coach Yard and Leg of Mutton Yard were used interchangeably until 1861?

[Novak20]

Hello,

I have been offline for a while, and just read your email.

The Clarke and Thacker families I mentioned are also related to the Pagets.
Henry Clarke married Caroline Paget in 1844 St Matthew Bethnal Green. A witness at the marriage was David Thacker. Caroline's father was Matthew Paget, labourer.
The Henry & Caroline's son James married Sarah Ann Thacker, daughter of David.
These are all on my ancestral line.

The Clarkes and Thackers were both living on Mail Coach Yard. I've assumed, though haven't worked out the details, that these Pagets were related. (there's a plausible looking baptism for a William Paget, son of Matthew, in Shoreditch 1819)

Both the Clarke and Thacker families were poor but surviving -- they were both subject to Shoreditch settlement examinations. Matthew seems to have been in and out of the workhouse.

I've just restarted looking into this family line & would be very interested to know any info you have on the Pagets.

best,
Mike

[terryjd]

I am not sure if the posters of this topic are still active?

I have an obscure detail to add if they are.

[cathayb]

i have family..the thorps living in coach yard shoreditch.nothing about masil coach yard.but i cant find it on ther map anywhere and wonder if there were houses or sheds or what there?its near new inn yard.its the 1871 cencus by the way.any help would be gratefully recieved

[Cali369]

I'm back, 13 years later and after much poring over old maps and digging into all my ancestors records I think I've solved it, or at least can proffer an explanation.

The place seems to start life as Leg of Mutton Gardens, between Huntingdon and Hoxton Road (and later Caroline Place) - in fact I haven't been able to find a map with Leg of Mutton Yard as the name! 

I have screenshots of maps from 1818, 1830, 1837 and 1843 - all shown as Leg of Mutton Gardens and both John Lockie and Edward Mogg's street directories from 1810 have it listed as Leg of Mutton Gardens
 https://londonwiki.co.uk/Lockie1810/Lockie1810L.shtml

So it seems officially, and therefore on the 1841 and 1851 census, it's Leg of Mutton Gardens/Yard.

But colloquially, by the people who live there,  it always seems to be referred to as Mail Coach Yard.  My earliest mention is a marriage in 1827, a death in 1834 and then many baptisms and deaths from 1845 onwards.

Then on the 1861 census and on Edward Meller's map from 1868 the 'official' name is updated to Mail Coach Yard - which is in exactly the same place as Leg of Mutton Gardens.
http://london1868.com/weller32b.htm

Hope this helps everyone confused by the changing name.