help/advice wanted

[glamorganmorgan]

Hi Everyone
I am trying to find mention of my Gr Gr grandfather's birth ,his name is Charles Williams, who dies in 1912 aged 82. He is buried in Ebenezer URC churchyard in Pontnewynydd.
my innocent view was that all i had to do was find out where he came from according to census records and then being born in c 1830, you can try and identify the correct parish records to look at and there you are.....or not.

it helped that he lived in the same area for more than half a century, in or near Nightingale Village, Trevethin
census year  where born
1901              Llanvihangel-vach,Mon
1891              Monmouthshire,Pontypool
1881              Monmouth,Llanvangall-vach
1871              Monmouth,Llanvihange(l)
1861              Monmouthshire,Lanvehangelach
1851              Monmouth,Llanvihangel

I know that his father was John Williams , a sawyer. in the 1850s Charles got married and John is mentioned. He married again in the 1870s and this time John is deceased.

not knowing where to start I have looked at the Parish Records for most of Monmouth and can't locate a birth.

In 1851 he is living with Mary Williams and relationship is son. She is 61 and a widow.

Am i at the end of my journey as far as Charles is concerned? Are there any non conformist records to look at? if so where? Thank you for your patience

[Sikes]

Have you tried http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/ ?

[glamorganmorgan]

yes i have and he is not there

[Arranroots]

Hi

You will need to bear in mind that non-conformists often practised adult baptism, so you should alter the dates of your search accordingly.

Have you found Charles on the 1841 census?  Have you found birthplaces for his siblings and are they consistent?  Have you found a marriage for John and Mary that fits with the birth of their first child?

Things like occupation are important when following families with common surnames - sawyer is quite a nice one, amid all the coalminer hewers in Trevethin!  I daresay there are a few of them too though.

Kind regards, Arranroots 

[glamorganmorgan]

I havent yet found Charles on the 1841 census. In 1851 I think i have , in Ebenezer Road, Trevethin. His details look right but are all the others right? Mary is 61, Head and a widow. This doesn't fit with Charles'marriage certificates (father alive in 50s dead by 70s). Also,if Mary is his mother, in 1861 she is living on the parish. Also, the only other resident in 1851 is Henry Jenkins, son in law.mmmm
I sent a general request a few years ago, looking for a marriage 1851 0r earlier, for Henry Jenkins where he is marrying a Williams, and father is John Williams. They sent me a certificate for 1849 for Henry Jenkins marrying Elizabeth Jones and fathers name is Evan Williams. So 1851 information is up in the air.

[Arranroots]

I can't find him in 1841 either - I'm wondering whether he was born with a different surname, or Mary is a step-mother.

The weirdest thing just happened though - I found a likely Charles in 1841 and in the household was ... my 3x great grandmother Phoebe RODWAY!  Quite a surprise, though I had seen the record before.

 

I agree that finding the JENKINS connection could be key - don't forget that son-in-law can mean step-son.

A 

[glamorganmorgan]

Thanks Arranroots

if non conformists practised adult basptism, I still wont find him in parish records or will i?

[Arranroots]

Not regular parish records - you need the records of the church he attended.

The marriage of his parents had by law to be in the established church though, so you should find that.  And if there is a second marriage for the parents, you should find that too!

 

[glamorganmorgan]

ok but that means we are looking for the marriage of John Williams and somone!!!!! prior to 1830ish  somewhere!!!!

you see my problem