Birth Abt 1848

[dannyvel]

Hi i am new to a lot of this so i need all the help i need. This is where i am at with one person in my tree.

Andrew Ellis b. Abt 1848 SCOTLAND

Father: William Ellis

Thats it as far as Scotland is concerned. I am in North Wales and have tracked him from 1871 until his death aged 61 in 1909.

Maybe i am chasing a lost cause because thats the most information i have found. I know when he married, his children and almost everything that happened from 1871 onwards but this is really bugging me and has been for a while.

Any info or advice would be great.
Thanks
Danny x

[Little Nell]

Lost cause may be right! 

First of all where did this info come from?  Where did he live from 1871 onwards?  Where did he die?  What was his occupation?

I know that's lots of questions, but the answers even to those may provide even the slightest clue.

Nell

[dannyvel]

From 1871 he was in Buckley, North Wales. This is where he stayed until his death in 1909. He was 24 in 1871 and was in the England census as a Labourer, 1881 he was a Brickburner. 1891 a brickwork labourer and 1901 aged 52??? was again a labourer in the brickyard. Buckley was huge in Brickmaking.
He married at the age of 22 and that was also in Buckley.
On all these records it just states where born as Scotland and father William Ellis (marriage cert.).
Interesting i haven't found him on 1861 or 1851 for sure i have seen some possibilities.
Any avenues i will try to explore as it's important to me. None of my other branches have gone to Scotland and i am quite excited.
One branch went to the Seychelles so lets see if i can make anything of this 

[Little Nell]

Should have asked: what did his father do for a living according to the marriage cert?  And was he -allegedly - still alive at that time?

Nell

[dannyvel]

Unfortunately it just says deceased underneath his name. I don't have his death certificate but i went and found his grave where he died in 1909. I don't imagine the death cert. will reveal anything else. I did find one in the Scottish census who was a servant aged 14 but obviously not being at home i couldn't verify a fathers name. Maybe his father was dead before then.
Would love to have known what made him move to North Wales in particular.

[Little Nell]

Hmm....  As you say there are some possibilities on the Scottish census but ideally the pair need to be found together to make a link.  Nothing obvious shows up.  There is always the possibility that Andrew lied on the marriage to save face. 

Nell

[sheena58]

Hi Danny,
It was fairly common for youngsters of 14 to be servants at that time, and indeed much later (My father's elder sisters both went 'into service' at around that age in the 1920s) so it certainly doesn't indicate to me that his father was dead. I think you need to bear in mind that a lot of young men at that time were moving away from terrible poverty in Scotland to seek work or a new life abroad too.
Have you tried looking on Scotlands People? Of course registration didn't start in Scotland until 1855 so you would only be able to find a baptism if one survives. I know exactly where my great grandfather was born at about the same time as your man but there's nothing on record to confirm. I have had a quick look and there appears to be only one record of a baptism for Andrew Ellis between 1840 and 1854. I don't have any credits so didn't look at the record to find out details. The date is 30.10.1844 which is a little earlier than you might expect but ages can vary quite a bit on census records. Having said that it didn't like the suggestion that his father was William. It might be worth you spending a couple of pounds on the site to check it out. Likewise there appears to be only one Andrew Ellis on the 1851 census aged between 2 & 8 years (he's 5) but he doesn't appear to be with a William.
If you have the names of his children this might give you a few clues as to other family members. Most Scots were fairly good at following family naming patterns and if you find a surname as a middle name that will be a clue too.
On the down side the Scots are also extrememy good at using random variants of a name (partly due to the Gaelic/English thing) For example one of my great great grandmothers is recorded on various official documents as Eppy, Elsie, Elspet, Ephemia Euphemia and Phemie.
That probably doesn't exactly clafiry things but might give you some food for thought. 

Sheena

[dannyvel]

Thanks for your replies guys and i am just sorry nothing can really be done here. From what i can gather there is no clear evidence i can obtain to prove anything.
Will his death certificate show up any info on the area of birth?
Everything i have seen just says Scotland, Scotland is a big place lol.
Could be the wrong age on that aswell.

Lost Cause i think. 1861 i can't find anybody really close to the right age but maybe he is just one of them that slipped through the net.

[Little Nell]

Will his death certificate show up any info on the area of birth?

No.  If he died in Scotland it should show his parents' names - but that information is only as good as the knowledge of the informant.  If he died in England or Wales, I'm afraid you don't even get that.

Any other Ellis of similar age in the same area who was born in Scotland and possibly a sibling?

Nell