Copestick lineage

[fofofo]

Copestake

Is there a way to see I am correct in constructing the follwing:
James Copestick Harpur, Commercial traveller, born 23-01-1835 Draycott Derby, Baptised 24-02-1835 Derby, died 14-06-1878 Doncater, married 14-12-1865 Doncaster.

His parents were James Copestick, a wheelwrite, baptised 11-10-1805 St. Werburgh Derby, married 30-12-1833 Werburgh Derby (or 15-04-1834?) to Mary Harpur.

His parents were James Copestake, born 1776 Werburgh Derby, married 16-02-1801 Werburgh Derby to Mary Thomson, born 1780 Werburgh Derby.

I have this from the IGI, but is anyone able to see if the data is correct?

[sunflower]

Hi

James Copestick & Mary Harpur married by licence so you could try to get a copy which may give more information.

James Copestick Senior was a Farmer at the time of marriage to Mary Thompson

Information from Phillimore marriage index

Carol

[fofofo]

Thank you, I will look into this.

Alex

Hi

James Copestick & Mary Harpur married by licence so you could try to get a copy which may give more information.

James Copestick Senior was a Farmer at the time of marriage to Mary Thompson

Information from Phillimore marriage index

Carol

[spendlove]

Hi,
A little more information + confirmation of marriage/birth

James Copestick = Mary Harpur 15.4.1834 St. Werburghs, Derby By Licence.
The above from Phillimore Transcripts of Derbyshire Marriages.

James Copestick born 23.1.183 Bpt. 24.2.1835 St. Alkmund King Street Wesleyan Methodist.

James & Mary Harpur had no further Children, because James Snr. was already dead by the time
the Bpt took place.
DERBY MERCURY  25TH February 1835
IN THE AFFAIRS OF JAMES COPESTICK
WHEELWRIGHT, DRAYCOTT

All persons who have any claim upon the Estate & Effect of the late James Copestick, are required to send
the same to Joseph Hooley, shoemaker, Draycott, in order to the same being examined and if correct, discharged.
And all persons who stand indebted to the sale late James Copestick, are requested to pay the amount
immediately to the aforesaid Joseph Hooley, who is legally authorised to receive the same.

Further confirmation of this is:-
Mary Copestick = George Camp 2.8.1844 St. Werburgh, Derby  Her Father "Joseph Harpur"
his Father "Job Camp"

Spendlove

[fofofo]

Thank you so much! I reside in The Netherlands and it is so difficult for me to find any information. I could hug you, I really appreciate your help.
I am just a little puzzled by this:
James Copestake Harpur's death certificate sais he died 14th June 1878 Doncaster York at the age of 45, Commercial Traveller. He married Elizabeth Poles 14th December 1865 Doncaster Wath upon Deurne.
So if he was born 23rd Januari 1835 then the birthdate is wrong. Should it not be 1833?
I am puzzled about his naming too. On his marriagecertificate his full name is James Copstick Harpur, also stating his father was named James HARPUR (in stead of James Copestick) a Wheelwright. On his death certificate his full name is James Copestack Harpur.
Any way to make sure we are on the right track? Is it possible to see what is on his birthcertificate? Both names of parents and correct name and date should be mentioned. Then I will also know that the information given about James Copestick and Mary Harpur and their parents is correct. It would be great if you could help me with this. Kind regards, Alex
P.S. Could it be possible to get a copy of the Berby Mercury article?

Hi,
A little more information + confirmation of marriage/birth

James Copestick = Mary Harpur 15.4.1834 St. Werburghs, Derby By Licence.
The above from Phillimore Transcripts of Derbyshire Marriages.

James Copestick born 23.1.183 Bpt. 24.2.1835 St. Alkmund King Street Wesleyan Methodist.

James & Mary Harpur had no further Children, because James Snr. was already dead by the time
the Bpt took place.
DERBY MERCURY  25TH February 1835
IN THE AFFAIRS OF JAMES COPESTICK
WHEELWRIGHT, DRAYCOTT

All persons who have any claim upon the Estate & Effect of the late James Copestick, are required to send
the same to Joseph Hooley, shoemaker, Draycott, in order to the same being examined and if correct, discharged.
And all persons who stand indebted to the sale late James Copestick, are requested to pay the amount
immediately to the aforesaid Joseph Hooley, who is legally authorised to receive the same.

Further confirmation of this is:-
Mary Copestick = George Camp 2.8.1844 St. Werburgh, Derby  Her Father "Joseph Harpur"
his Father "Job Camp"

Spendlove

[spendlove]

Hi,
The bpt for James Copestick born 23.1.1835 is on the IGI, this extracted record states
that his Mother was MARY HARPUR and his Father was JAMES COPESTICK.

If you assume that this record is for your James Copestick Harpur, then the parents must have lied
about his birth date to the Church - Although possible, I do not think it likely.  If they did lie, then
James would have been born as James Harpur.

There is something very odd about your James Copstick Harpur born abt 1833.

Because of his early death, the only census he appears on, after his marriage, is the 1871 Census
RG10/5088 F 87 Pg 3  108 Grey Street, Newcastle Upon Tyne
age 36 (1835) Commercial Traveller born NOTTINGHAMSHIRE

His wife Elizabeth is living with their 2 children Marian age 4 & Henry S C age 2?,
RG10/4719 F 63 Pg4.

In both of the above Census James & Elizabeth say they are married, obviously as a commercial traveller
he is working away from home.

Prior to their marriage, on the 1861 Census RG9/3668 F79 Pg 17 Kings Head Inn, Leyburn, Yorkshire
we have THOMAS C HARPER visitor  u/m 27 Commercial Traveller born NOTTINGHAM.

Think this is too much of a coincidence to be ignored, you have to ask why has he changed his Christian Name?
The same question applies if you assume that the birth in Derby 1835 is correct, then why has he changed
his surname from Copestick to Harpur?

Cannot find him in 1851 Census.

The James Copestick born 1835 Draycott in the 1851 Census is Living in Silver Street Gainsborough, Lincolnshire
u/m aged 16 Apprentice to Chemist   HO107.2120 Folio 86 Pg 13

Spendlove

[fofofo]

First of all I'd like to thank you so much for your wonderfull help. This is quite interesting. I was trying to find proof of what I found on the IGI as to James Copestick being the father of James Copestick Harpur. First of all the facts that I do have:
Birth Doncaster county of York: 28-04-1869 Henry Poles Copestake, boy, father James Copestake Harper, Commercial traveller, mother Elizabeth Harper formerly Poles. Baptism Parish Brampton Bierlow of county Yorkshire: 21-06-1869 Henry Poles Copestake, father James Copestake Harpur & Elizabeth (Poles).
Marriage in the Parish of Wath upon Deurne in the county of York 14-12-1865 James Copestick Harpur, age 31 Commercial Traveller, father James Harpur Wheelwright & Elizabeth Poles, age 22 Wath West Melton, father Henry Poles Farmer.
Death of James Copestake Harpur 14-06-1878 Doncaster county of York, male 45 years uitral diseas of the heart anasarca. The only census  I had was of 1881; It sais that Elizabeth C Harpur is a widow of 39 and with her are living Mariana C Harpur 14 and Foster C Harpur 4 (Henry Poles Copestake Harpur was at Commercial traveller school in the village of Pinner).

So according to the marriage certificate of James Copestick Harpur, he was born around 1834. According to his death certificate he was born about 1833. And according to the 1881 census he was dead. His son Foster being 4 gives us indeed that he died in the year 1878.

So, if I take your information regarding the other census then we might have been looking at the wrong person, ergo you discoverd the Nottinghamshire birthplace. So I think we should look for the family in Nottinghamshire in stead of Derby. What do you think? Any suggestions?

Kind regards, Alex

Hi,
The bpt for James Copestick born 23.1.1835 is on the IGI, this extracted record states
that his Mother was MARY HARPUR and his Father was JAMES COPESTICK.

If you assume that this record is for your James Copestick Harpur, then the parents must have lied
about his birth date to the Church - Although possible, I do not think it likely.  If they did lie, then
James would have been born as James Harpur.

There is something very odd about your James Copstick Harpur born abt 1833.

Because of his early death, the only census he appears on, after his marriage, is the 1871 Census
RG10/5088 F 87 Pg 3  108 Grey Street, Newcastle Upon Tyne
age 36 (1835) Commercial Traveller born NOTTINGHAMSHIRE

His wife Elizabeth is living with their 2 children Marian age 4 & Henry S C age 2?,
RG10/4719 F 63 Pg4.

In both of the above Census James & Elizabeth say they are married, obviously as a commercial traveller
he is working away from home.

Prior to their marriage, on the 1861 Census RG9/3668 F79 Pg 17 Kings Head Inn, Leyburn, Yorkshire
we have THOMAS C HARPER visitor  u/m 27 Commercial Traveller born NOTTINGHAM.

Think this is too much of a coincidence to be ignored, you have to ask why has he changed his Christian Name?
The same question applies if you assume that the birth in Derby 1835 is correct, then why has he changed
his surname from Copestick to Harpur?

Cannot find him in 1851 Census.

The James Copestick born 1835 Draycott in the 1851 Census is Living in Silver Street Gainsborough, Lincolnshire
u/m aged 16 Apprentice to Chemist   HO107.2120 Folio 86 Pg 13

Spendlove

[spendlove]

Hi Alex,
There is no doubt that the children you have found are the children of James C Harpur, the problem
now is to discover who his father was.

You need to find the James Copestick born 1835 Draycott & his mother Mary in the 1841 Census in
the hope that his age gives a clue.
We have him in 1851 Census, but I cannot see him under this name in later census, however in
1861 Thomas C Harpur and later James C. Harpur appear.
It looks as if he is giving conflicting information deliberately - which makes you wonder if he was married
previously and his first wife was still living.

1851
St. Pancras Middlesex
HO107/1496 Folio 547 Pg 16
Camp George 38 Devauden, Derbyshire (per transcription)
"    Mary          38 Lester, Husbands Bosworth
+ Children

We know from her second marriage that Mary Harpur's Father was named James Harpur, the IGI
extracted record:-
Mary Harper born 13.6.1812 Bpt 5.7.1812 Husbands Bosworth, Leicester father James Harper & Hannah
Think this is Mary who married James Copestick and produced James Copestick 1835.
You need to find the Harpur and Camp families on later Census, in the hope they visit each other. BIG HOPE

Regards
Spendlove

[fofofo]

HI,

I understand, but could it be that we are looking in the wrong place. You found that James Copestake Harpur came from Nottinghamshire? My topography is not to good as to know if we should direct our attention elsewhere!

Kind regards, Alex

Hi Alex,
There is no doubt that the children you have found are the children of James C Harpur, the problem
now is to discover who his father was.

You need to find the James Copestick born 1835 Draycott & his mother Mary in the 1841 Census in
the hope that his age gives a clue.
We have him in 1851 Census, but I cannot see him under this name in later census, however in
1861 Thomas C Harpur and later James C. Harpur appear.
It looks as if he is giving conflicting information deliberately - which makes you wonder if he was married
previously and his first wife was still living.

1851
St. Pancras Middlesex
HO107/1496 Folio 547 Pg 16
Camp George 38 Devauden, Derbyshire (per transcription)
"    Mary          38 Lester, Husbands Bosworth
+ Children

We know from her second marriage that Mary Harpur's Father was named James Harpur, the IGI
extracted record:-
Mary Harper born 13.6.1812 Bpt 5.7.1812 Husbands Bosworth, Leicester father James Harper & Hannah
Think this is Mary who married James Copestick and produced James Copestick 1835.
You need to find the Harpur and Camp families on later Census, in the hope they visit each other. BIG HOPE

Regards
Spendlove