John Thompson Grahame

[Catsclaws]

Please can any one help me with my Puzzle ?

I have a birth cert for my husbands Grandfather John Horace Grahame 1894
Parents are John Thompson Grahame Marine Engineer and Mary Jane Grahame ne Widdop .
He is born in Bradford.
I have 1901 census with Mary Jane Living alone with her 7 year old son Horace ( John )she is a draper at 46 Commercial rd Halifax , this states she is married
I also have 1911 census Mary Jane Grahame draper with son John Horace aged 17 at 46 Commercial Rd
she is still a draper . It states she has been married for 18 years and still is .
I have John Horace Grahame ( Son) wedding cert 1919 where it states the father to be John Grahame and a commercial Traveller but Deceased .
I have a 2nd Marriage cert of John Horace Grahame in Birmingham to Mary tunks stating that his father was John Grahame Commercial traveller ( Music)
I have The death cert of John Horace Grahame and also Mary Grahame .
But I cannot find any wedding cert between Mary Jane Widdop and John Grahame with or without an 'E'
I have bought 5 certs now
1886 Mary Widdop,1893 Mary Widdop,1881 Mary Widdop ,1898 Mary Widdop ,1888 John Grahame .
ALL are WRONG

I suspect my Mary Jane Widdop is the One Born in Northowram  Halifax . But cant prove it till I get a marriage cert . I cant find out who my John Grahame is Either .

So you see I am very stuck . I have tried various Grahame spellings .
There is one avenue I haven't tried yet and that is looking for a marriage in other parts of the country .
Has any super sleuth out there got any ideas  and can help stop me buying certs and knocking my head against a brick wall . i would be so grateful .
Regards Jean

I have however found John Grahame in Birmingham in 1901 living with a Rose Grahame and with a couple of kids . That stated he is a commercial traveller ( Draper ) and no possible wedding certificate for him and Rose . I have been down that path too .

[maidmarion]

Hi catclaws,

In 1911 does she state how many children she had  and does she give Northowram as place of birth?

Have you checked to see who she is buried with, looked for her obituary? You never know 

There is a marriage in Halifax Sep 1/4 1881 for Mary Jane Widdop to either Matthew Scott or John Thomas Hawkridge  which may need further investigation. Is this the 1881 marriage cert. that you bought if so what details does it give?

Have you found her in 1881/91?

maidmarion 

[Catsclaws]

Hi maid Marion
Yes that is one of the wedding certs that I have bought . It isnt him .
I have downloaded all the census for all the Mary Widdops born and living from 1861 onwards and by tracing each one of their lives eliminated most of them . For example Marry Widdpo of Ovendon was the 1881 Widdop so it wasnt she .
My Mary Jane said she was born in 1862 which was a bit of a fib and the nearest  in age is brn 1859 in Northowram .
I suspect she was a little old nearing 30 when she got married and lied about her age . Hence she only had the one child in 1994 . This is shown to be so on the census too .
Also   Northowram is on the Bradford side of Halifax. They must of moved to Bradford in that year 1893 before her child's birth and then moved back to Halifax because he was never at home ?
The Mary Widdop I think it has a father called William ( House Painter )and Moth Mary Jane Living in George street and she has a sister Martha and a brother John H and baby sister Eliza .
But I can only surmise until I see a wedding cert .
Also I cant find any trace of a death for John Grahame or even where she is interred . Im not very good at that
Many thanks for looking into this with me I have been at it over 2 years now

Scratching my head
Jean xx

[Catsclaws]

I cant see any sign of Mary Jane  Widdop Northowram in 1881 but there is a Mary Widdop with a different Widdop family on Haly hill Its unlikely to be her because of the professions . But I cant be sure of anything

Tricky one isnt it ?

regards Jean

[groom]

Hi again Jean

There is a death on FreeBMD for a John T Graham in N. Bierley in the Sept quarter of 1913.  9b 11. He was 59 years old so born about 1854. Could this be him, if as his wife says he was still alive in 1911?

N. Bierley was in the West Ridng of Yorkshire.

Jan

[maidmarion]

Hi Jean,
You mean this one......

1881 4, Ringstone, Halifax
Mary Jane Widdop H mar 52 housewife dom b.Southowram
Martha J. Widdop daur 24 asst " b.Halifax
Mary J. Widdop daur 26 manufacturing stationary asst b.Northowram

[sillgen]

If Mary was nearing 30 when she married then it is always possible that she was a widow and you need to be looking for a marriage to John Grahame in her first married name.    That would not show on a birth certificate as it only shows maiden name.    Just a thought to throw into the pot!
Andrea

[maidmarion]

1891 Halifax Workhouse
Martha G Widdop 34 b.Halifax insane

[Catsclaws]

Hi Groom

Well I ruled him out because the family had been living in Halifax since at least 1901 so I cant see how he would have been registered dead in Bradford .
Hes also a little old . I get the feeling that he is younger thank Mary Jane .. because she lied about her age ?

I still think there is something odd about him being a commercial traveller .
in 1901   RG 13/2925 census there is a John Graham Commercial traveller Drapery living there with 2 children ..
Note he isn't at home in Halifax with Mary Jane and his son .
Then in the 1911 census he's not in Halifax or with Rose down in Birmingham ?

I could be totally barking up the wrong tree . Thats why I needed some fresh pair of eyes and brains on the subject in case I have got into a rut

Regards Jean x