Charles Vivian Payne

[Terance Jonathan Payne]

son of Irene Payne, Charles was born in or around Chester on 4th Feb 1933 died May 1999, Blacon Chester, has anyone got any cencus info on his mother and ancesters, Irene Payne also of Chester i think aroud the hoole area, thanks.

[lizdb]

Need to go one step at a time!

From his birth cert, was Irene unmarried? Or was Payne her married name - if so what was maiden name from his birth cert?

[MaryA]

Payne was given as his mother's maiden name in the indexes at least - Charles V Payan Q2 1933 Chester 8a 524.  I believe you would need this certificate at least to see where she was living when he was born.

Looking at Irene Paynes, there would appear to be only one old enough to have been his mother, assuming that she was also born in Cheshire

Irene Payne Q1 1916 Chester 8a 618 Mother's maiden name Roberts

Was she a twin? there is an Edith Payne registered on page 617.

There is also a Winifred I Payne Q1 1920 Chester 8a 842a

If you know any of her siblings it might help to confirm this is the right person. 

[MaryA]

Possible marriage of

Henry Payne to May Roberts Q4 1912 Chester 8a 821

Again this information can only be confirmed by means of Irene's birth certificate.

[CaroleW]

Also from Cheshire BMD www.cheshirebmd.org.uk

1904
 
PAYNE William ROBERTS Elizabeth at Christ Church Chester - records at  Cheshire West CE11/2/213

The marriage of Henry & May was a Civil marriage

[Terance Jonathan Payne]

Payne was given as his mother's maiden name in the indexes at least - Charles V Payan Q2 1933 Chester 8a 524.  I believe you would need this certificate at least to see where she was living when he was born.

Looking at Irene Paynes, there would appear to be only one old enough to have been his mother, assuming that she was also born in Cheshire

Irene Payne Q1 1916 Chester 8a 618 Mother's maiden name Roberts

Was she a twin? there is an Edith Payne registered on page 617.
Funny that but Edith and Winifred were Charles's aunties,its only now that you mention their names that it falls into place, that in 1979 whilst in the army i came on leave and eent to the Royal British Leagion in Upton in Chester, while there i engaged with these dear ladies who i ended up playing a card or two of bingo with, never actually thinking that theyr were related, i am the only son of Charles Vivian payne, i met him when i was 22, we lost touched and i found out about his untimly death in 1999,i never asked about his side of the family or indeed my heritage,all i was told was that he didnt know who his father was, so i am eternally greatful for your kind help. There are no other living relatives that i know of but my dad did mention that he may have two brothers somewhere in Birmingham //??

There is also a Winifred I Payne Q1 1920 Chester 8a 842a

If you know any of her siblings it might help to confirm this is the right person. 

[Terance Jonathan Payne]

Need to go one step at a time!

From his birth cert, was Irene unmarried? Or was Payne her married name - if so what was maiden name from his birth cert?

Liz it could be that as Charles didnt know who his father was, and i think that irene was in service to a house hold, that she became pregnant and was dismissed, she then may have gone home to have the child Charles, 

[lizdb]

It could be ....

but your initial post just gave us his mothers name as you were wanting to trace back from her - it did not mention that he was illegitimate!

So - do you have his birth cert? I am taking it that you do as you seem to have info surrounding his birth.
Where was he born? Is Irene just listed as Irene Payne or are there any previous names?
When he marries does he name a father, or leave that part of cert blank?

[Terance Jonathan Payne]

the only info i got was from my grand mother, who obviously would have wanted to kn ow something of the man her daughter was marrying, apparently irene  was also an original "Bluebell girl",he was born in Chester, i think as far as i can remember, i do not have his birth cert, or any info other than that, i would have liked to know where he went to school but i can probably get that from an application form he may have filled in for work.
Irene was only very young so it would tie in with the dates that she could have been 17 years old when she had Charles in 1933, no age to become pregnant.
i will apply for the birth certs in due course, and of course get back to you. thanks for your info, regards terry