Northamptonshire Birth: John SOUTH

[suzyed]

The death record of my ancestor John SOUTH on June 7 1853 gives his birthplace as Nipcott, Warwickshire, age 76. However, the Warwickshire Record office before searching for a birth record there looked at the 1841 and 1851 census. (I imagine they figured birthplace on census is given by the person himself, on a death record it is by someone else). They state that John when alive on the 1841 census states his county of birth is Northamptonshire (he's living in Helmdon at time of that census) and on the 1851 census he states he is born in Helmdon.

Anyone find a John South born anywhere between June 8, 1776 and June 6, 1777 in Helmdon or anywhere in Northamptonshire?

Thank you.

Note: John South married both wife #1 (Mary Yerrow in 1803) and #2 (Sarah Bromley in 1814) in Warwickshire but apparently those were the bride's home.

[suzyed]

Also my ancestor John SOUTH (see above post) had two children who were also born in Helmdon. The second son Mark South is my direct ancestor, the other son, Jesse Bromley South, stayed in Helmdon though all I know is he was born about 1816 and married Mary Blackwell May 30, 1836 in Helmdon, don't have a death date or place for Jesse. But that's another matter.

[suzard]

The death record of my ancestor John SOUTH on June 7 1853 gives his birthplace as Nipcott, Warwickshire, age 76.
Thank you.

Note: John South married both wife #1 (Mary Yerrow in 1803) and #2 (Sarah Bromley in 1814) in Warwickshire but apparently those were the bride's home.

If it is a death certificate you are referring to, then the p.o.b. is not usually recorded -only the place of death -and home address if different

Suz

[suzard]

Is this John's death reg
John South
Jun qtr 1853
Brackley
3b 11

??

1841

[suzard]

these will be the census that Warwickshire records office looked up for you -but there is something of interest there

1841
The Green Helmdon Northamptonshire
John South 62 ag lab yes
Sarah 66 no
Elizabeth 15 yes
Caroline 13 yes
Ann Wheeler 15(? or 25) no

next door but one
Elizabeth Humphries 74 yes
William South 30 ag lab yes(although this William answers "yes" to being born in Northamptonshire - in 1851 and later census he gives p.o.b. as Burton Dassett Warwicks - so he is possibly William Watts South and is son of John South and first wife mary ?)
Ann 30 Yes
George 3 yes

HO107 804 7 10

then

1851
Helmdon Northamptonshire
Frederick Turvey(? or Turney?) Head M 21 lab Farm Helmdon Northants
Ann wife 23 Lace maker Nightcote Warwickshire
Elizabeth daughter 9mths Helmdon Northants
John South grandfather widower 73 lab helmdon Northants
HO107 1735 page 12

So was John South frederick or Ann's grandfather??

It is interesting that Ann gives p.o.b. as Nightcote Warwicks -which is possibly where you thought John was born???

1861 Ann gives p.o.b. as Burton Dassett Warwicks -and John South with first wife mary had children christened in Burton Dassett

Jesse South with wife mary had moved fron Helmden to Aston Warwicks by 1861 and this is possibly his death reg

jesse South
age 66
Jun qtr 1882
Aston
6d 184

this looks like him in 1881
24 Court 3 Aston Rd Birmingham Warwicks
Jesse South head m 66 gas stoker unemployes Elmdon Northants
Mary wife 64 Crowfields Northants
with some family can be found at RG11 3029 53 13

It seems strongest possibility John was b Helmdon -have you traced all of the children -they may give more clues

Suz
Mary daughter 22?

[seahall]

Hi Suzyed/Sue.

There is another topic about John here also.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/092a/

There is no baptism in the C of E for John South in Northants that
would fit unless he was from Croughton, not Hemldon.

Sandy

[suzyed]

Regarding John South's birth information being found through his children, the only ones I've known about are Jesse Bromley South b. 1816 and Mark (my ancestor) born 1817. But I see on that 1841 census that living with a John and Sarah South are Elizabeth  age 15 and Caroline age 13. Could these be younger sisters to Jesse and Mark?

[seahall]

Hi suzyed.

The children you list where daughters of Charlotte South.

Elizabeth, 13 Oct 1825 and Caroline, 16 Sep 1827.

No father noted.

Sandy

[seahall]

From the Northants Marriage Indexes.

Helmdon
13 Oct 1843
James CLARKE otp, minor, bachelor, labourer, father not stated to
Elizabeth SOUTH otp, minor, spinster, lacemaker, father not stated

Sandy