Browns in Ulverston

[Anneqq]

I hope some one can help? I am looking for descendents of John James Brown & Mary Ann Brown (Nee: Newton) who lived in North Lonsdale Road in 1911.   I believe that I am descended from one of their children, but need a bit of clarification.

They were married at Holy Trinity Church in Ulverston on 3 July 1899. John James is 27 and is living in Dale Street and Mary Ann is 19 and living in Upper Sun Street.
John James’s father was called Septumus and Mary Ann’s father was called Myles (deceased at the time of their marriage)
 
According to the 1911 Census John James (then 40 years old) worked as a Iron Worker, blast furnace, Mary Ann Brown age is 31. They are shown to have 6 Children: Florence May (11), who I think I’m related to, Maud (9), Harold (, Edwin (7), Reuben Fredrick (2) and Arnold Gilbert (6 weeks).

[sillgen]

Hi and welcome to rootschat
It may be worth your looking at www.freebmd.org.uk or the full GRO index to check marriages for the children.  The marriage certificate for Florence will give her father's name and occupation and may prove the connection for you.  Brown is such a common name that you will almost certainly have to prove the lineage with certificates.
Regards
Andrea

[Anneqq]

Thanks
I have been hitting a dead end with my maternal grandmother, Florence, the information I have doesn't quite tally with the offical word. So I am trying to dicount a line I'm following in Ulverston, if this is not her family, than I am well and truly stuck.

My Grandparents didn't marry until I was 3 yrs old (1969, brave for the time)
they where 81 & 69 years old, it shows my grandmothers father as deceased, and his name as John Brown (wish it had included the James to be sure) and occupation as a farmer? How can i clarify the family in Ulverston are my relatives?? (my mum has always claimed that her mum came from Aspartia in Cumbria and was an only child)

HELP Please

[sillgen]

Aspatria and Ulverston are not exactly close and I am amazed at the number of children called Florence Brown at that time so I would not be convinced at all that this is your correct line.    Occupation of father as farmer does not tie in either.  When was your grandmother's birthday?  That will help establish which quarter her birth will be registered in. Aspatria should be registered in Wigton district I think.
Andrea

[emmsthheight]

Hi Anneqq

I'm a bit confused and I'm trying to think how to work back gradually!

Did your grandparents definitely live in Ulverstone?

I don't know how much you'll want to put on the post as it's getting near the time for living relatives, but you can check for yourself and also pm people.

Were the grandparents married in Ulverstone?  Do we know where the youngest children were born?  ie. the start of the union.  Do you know any places they lived when the children were growing up?

Of course it's possible she was born in Aspatria and in service in Ulverstone area.

Also, many people who put farmer on a record were actually farmworkers who traveed around.  It seems there's a gap to plug between 1911 and their marriages.  You may not want to go down that path, but even birth certificates for you Mum and siblings may hold clues.  Especially the first child.

Also, that large family in Ulverstone and a single child are very different scenario's.   Do you have any old cards etc with aunts iuncles etc or a baptism for the early children?

Do you have any old birthday cards to her, or funeral cards which would give clues?  If we knew some first names - or you did, you could look for a family with the right first name sequence.

Also, did anyone ever mention a regiment from the war?  Records can have clues on.

Just some thoughts!

Best wishes

Emms

[Anneqq]

Thanks for the reply.

My Grandparents lived in Northernden, manchester where they had a shop on Church Rd, I remember this vividly, but they had both died by the time I was12.
My mum was born in Manchester in 1948.
 As I have lookined back in to my maternal grandmothers side, i can only find 1 Florance May Brown born in Ulverston (not Aspatria, as she claimed to my mother). This is the family I have been looking at, just to discount really, but I feel like I'm wading through mud.
 All the following information is what my mother can remember being told to her by my grandmother: My gramdmother never mentioned to her of any other siblings, I know she went to live in Workington and was christened there and lived with (an Uncle % Aunt) "Pa" Walter until the Aunt died. She also went to live in Chorlton and worked at Metrovix(spelling?) where she met my Grandad, Fredrick Hall, he was already married to a lady called Elizabeth, all we know form there is they lived together until either Elizabeth died or when my Grandad started to become unwell, they married in 1969 aged 81 & 69.

I really would like to find my grandmothers family, but i think she has covered her tracks very well.  The only other bit of "history2 my mother had heard was that my grandmother was the result of an incestus (spelling?) relationship between bother & sister, I did notice from the 1901 Census that in the Newton houshold was the wifes brother (18yrs old)   - Anne 

[emmsthheight]

HI Anne

 - Welcome to Rootschat by the way!
Ooh it is complicated.  No wonder she covered her tracks.

That must have been so difficult, especially if she knew.  I wonder if there was some fostering etc and if there are some answers in Manchester.  I'll have  a think.  The big family aabove doesn't seem to add up but it may yet be right.

They may have iused a Mothers Baby Clinic or whatever  and "Sent her to the country".

I'm going toi have a think as loads of my family are in Manchester, but I might pm you, as it's not that long ago.

Best wishes

Emms

[Anneqq]

Hi
It's been awhile since i have been on, but I have found out this information below this IS my grandmother, the DOB is spot on and the other connections ring true. I have the birth cert, she was born on South Marsh Street in Whitehaven, but it also shows no father, her mother was a Margaret Bell, a Domestic Servant, is there anyway i could find my G Grandmother?,she does not show on the 1901 census at that address.

Thanks

Anne

#######

> We have found possible matches in 1901 and 1911 for Florance.
> we believe that she may have been born Florance May Bell (1900 Apr/May/Jun,
> Cockermouth, Cumbria, Vol 10b, Page 635)
> The attached 1901 census shows Florance May Bell living in Workington with John
> Brown & Sarah Brown, her relationship to the head 'adopted daughter'
> We can not find a matching 1911 census for John and Sarah
> We found a possible match for Florance in 1911, living with George Brown and
> Ruth Brown. The interesting part of this match is that Florance is recorded as a
> daughter along with another 3 siblings, but we know that this can't be the case.
> we did however trace George and Ruth back to the 1901 census and it shows them
> living with just one child, their son David, and no Florance. Could this be
> because Florance was with John and Sarah?
> All the relevant census are attached.
> Let us know your thoughts
> Regards,
>

[emmsthheight]

Hi Anne

Thank you for sharing all that.

Fascinating stuff!

I'll have another read of it all and get back.

Best wishes

Emms