Paton family in Paisley - Completed

[goldie61]

I'd be really grateful if anyone can help me find my missing Paton family in Paisley.

James Paton married Elizabeth Bertolle AUg 1836 Paisley low Church. They had a daughter Elizabeth born Aug 1837 at Paisley (ch Paisley Oakshaw Congregational,who went on to marry James Nicol in 1857 in Paisley), and a son Thomas born Jan 1840 at Paisley(again ch Congregational). These are the only two children I have managed to find for them.
I can't find them on the 1841 or 1851 Census.
James Paton is deceased by daughter's wedding in 1857. He was a 'flower drawer'. By this time she is a thread mill worker.
It's really frustrating as I can't find anything further about the ages or parents of either James or his wife Elizabeth Bertolle. 2 brick walls!

Many thanks

[Murphyz]

is the death on scotlands people of Elizabeth Bartolle in 1890 aged 73, other names listed as Brown, Kennedy, Paton no connection?
Or is there no detail on the death certificate re Elizabeth's parents,

Regards
Murphyz

[Murphyz]

On the 1841 free census for Paisley low address of 88 canal street there is:-

Surname       First name(s)   Sex       Age       Occupation       Where Born       
 CAMERON   Margret       F       60       Sewer                Renfrewshire           
 PATON       Betsy       F       22                               Renfrewshire           
 PATON       Betsy       F       4                               Renfrewshire           
 PATON       Thomas       M       18m                               Renfrewshire           
 MCNIEL       Agnes       F       30       Dress Maker        Renfrewshire

Betsy being another form of Elizabeth - perhaps this is them without James???

[Murphyz]

Again just from the family search.org site there is a record of a marriage between a Elizabeth Bertolle and William Nelson Brown in 1843 and a marriage in 1852 between a Elizabeth Bertolle and a William Kennedy in 1852 - both marriages in Paisley.

I don't have any credits left on SP or I would access the death record mentioned earlier to see if it clarifies if they are all the same Elizabeth Bertolle.

[goldie61]

Thanks for the info Murphyz.
I had seen the other marriages before, but had thought if she had remarried she would be Elizabeth Paton? Do you think she went back to her maiden name each time? Same goes for the death in 1890 - although now seeing the 'other names' that came up it makes my wonder if this isn't her.
The 1841 census looks a distinct possibility. Hadn't thought of looking for Betsy though I had tried Eliza!
Can't find a death for James PAton on SP that fits exactly (ie before1842 in Paisley) but there are lots of possibilities. - the trouble is I don't know his age.
Would death records before 1855 give parent's names etc?
I'm obviously not very good at this! - where did you find a 'free' 1841 Census?
Thanks again for your time

Added:
Great! The Elizabeth Bartolle that died 1890 is her! And it gives all three of her husbands - James Paton, William Brown and William Kennedy. And her parents names. BrillianT!
There doesn't seem to be a death of James Paton in Renfrew that fits though. The James Paton that dies Aug 1843 in Abbey turns out to be the Widow James Paton!
Maybe he died somewhere else - lots of those.
Thanks again - another chink in the wall!

[RJ_Paton]

In Scotland a woman simply adopts her husbands name at marriage but in legal documents is always known by her maiden name with the married name added as an extension. That said there was a period slightly later in the 19th century when not all widows did this and followed more along the lines of the English Traditions.

Pre civil registration it was not compulsory to register or record a death and so death records for that period can be very patchy. Generally the records only held the parents name if the deceased was a child who died young. The other main record for deaths are the mort cloth rental figures from the church although these are not yet available online.

[goldie61]

Thanks Falkyrn.
Where could I find out about mort cloth figures? I'm not in the UK so can't visit offices.
Thanks