Ephraim Harvey from Wilby

[Eppingjewish]

Dear Trish,

The only thing though I'm wondering Trish is that in the 1851 or 1841 census Harriet's birthplace says Debenham. The village you suggested doesn't look very close to Debenham.

Regards,

Nicky

[trish1120]

Yes, I agree but;
If I have the right Lucy;
Lucy SMITH Married Samuel SMITH, 1845 Plomesgate, Suffolk
(Familysearch.Org)

From Census Lucy Smith is born;
1851 c 1824 Bruisyard, Suffolk
1871 c 1823 Saxmundham, Suffolk,
1881 c 1824 Saxmundham, Suffolk
1891 c 1825 Bridgenorth, Suffolk

1871 they are in Surrey, 1881/1891 London area
Cant find them 1861
Albert who appears to be their only Child is an Apprentice in 1861

Samuel is consistant in all Census as c 1819 Framlingham, Suffolk
1891 he is under Saint Smith
By 1901 he has remarried.

Possible Death Reg FreeBMD LUCY Smith 1898 Lambeth age 75 (birth c 1823)

He probably remarried  Louisa Priscilla WESTLEY 1899 Reg    Lambeth   

[Annette7]

Hi Eppingjewish

Something else for you to consider:

On 2/6/1817 at Debenham 4 children were baptised to Zachariah Harvey and Martha Clutten:

Sidney b.27/3/1809
Arthur b.11/4/1812
Emily born 7/3/1814
Charlotte born 4/7/1816

In 1841 Zachariah and Martha are living in Halesworth with Charlotte 20 and a Lucy 15.

Zachariah bc.1781 died 1852 and was buried at Framlingham 11/11/1852
Martha bc.1783 bur.24/12/1857 Framlingham Cemetery

I cannot find Zachariah and Martha anywhere in 1851 although both should appear.

Son Sidney ended up in London but gives his birthplace as Halesworth (where his parents were in 1841).

You're probably now thinking 'what's this got to do with my Harriet'!!

Well, Emily Harvey b.7/3/1814 Debenham disappears off the face of the earth after her baptism - no death/burial, no marriage, no entries on census.   So, was Emily later to become Harriet I wonder? Perhaps her parents decided they didn't like 'Emily' and started calling her Harriet instead or, the cleric at the time wrote the wrong name down after the baptism.   Who can say!

Zachariah Harvey of Stradbroke married Martha Clutten 12/2/1809 Halesworth

Something for you to consider anyway.

Annette

 
 

[Eppingjewish]

Dear Annette,

Thank you very much. Yes that would seem to fit as there appears to be no reference anywhere to a Harriet in terms of births or baptisms. I rechecked the censuses and even in the 1881 census her place of birth is still recorded as Debenham, so that does seem to be a more likely match as I'm pretty sure that she was likely born in Debenham since it's listed in the censuses.

Thank you for that.

Warm regards,

Nicky

[Suffolk Mawther]

My husband is leading a walk around Framlingham churchyards and cemetery in the next couple of weeks, I am his assistant 
if I don't get the chance before then, I will see if I can check Martha's headstone as I think there is more information on it.

You can see it on John Pope's website at http://www.pope-genealogy.me.uk/framcemphoto.htm

Scroll down and it is on the left side.

SM ...

[329Dolphin]

Hi Eppingjewish,
In reading all the chats i don't think your Harriet is directly related to my Ephriam though there could be a link further back.
Ephraim's parents were James Harvey and Susannah Lucas. James Harvey Died in November 1841 at about 39, after the death of James she remarried to Thomas Aldous in 1848.Considering her age at this marriage would be almost 50 I don't think there were any children. Susannah died 7 July 1874.
Ephriam did have a sister 'Hariot' but she was born20 Dec 1838.
James and Susannah are so far missing from the 1841 census which was conducted in June of that year.
James Parents were William Harvey and (probably)  Judith Musk, married 14 March 1802. Their children were James, Charity, Edward, Susan Letice, Nathan and William.
We think that William parents were Samuel Harvey and Margaret Pettit who married in Rishangles 6 April 1772.
As to the Jewish connection, it is still unproven, though the feeling is that there is Romany/Jewish ancestry in there somewhere. My DNA states European Jewish < 1%.

[Eppingjewish]

Dear 329 Dolphin,

Thank you for that. Yes the connection could be a little further back as it's unlikely for people of the same surname in the same or neighbouring villages not to be related.

My Jewish ancestry is at lest 4 per cent and possibly higher.

Regards,

Nicky

[Eppingjewish]

As my Harvey's are around Wilby, Stradbroke and Debenham then Rishangles is in a triangle just slightly to the west. So I'm pretty sure there will be a connection somewhere.