Looking for James Kay

[Gensnr]

I am looking for my ancestor James Kay, who I believe was born in Kircaldy about 1848. I have no idea who his parents were, but according to the little I have found is that he "attended Mr Philip's school, and went to sea as an apprentice". I think he would have arrived here in NZ about 1865-1870, after having spent time in Australia. I have his history from the time he arrived, but would like to know about his life in Scotland, his parents, and any siblings. 
I apoligise for the scant info I have, but any help would be gratefully appreciated.
Cheers Gensnr

[goldie61]

Hi Gensnr
Out of interest I Googled 'Mr Philip's school in Kircaldy' and this interesting article came up about James Kay http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-Cyc04Cycl-t1-body1-d4-d10.html (you may have to scroll down to get to him. There's even a photo of him.) Is this where you got your information about him? If so, the dates you give in your post here don't quite seem to tally with the dates in the article.
It seems too much of  a coincidence for there to be two James Kays who "attended Mr Philip's school, and went to sea as an apprentice" !
How do you know your James Kay was born in 1848?
It certainly makes a difference when looking at Census etc if he was born 1848 or 1865.
Happy hunting!

[Jokdy]

I can shed some light on one of the schools - the building has been many things over the years - currently a night club, but when I was a wee girl it belonged to Reo Stakis and was a steakhouse managed my by mother and father.

It's located on Charlotte Steet in Kirkcaldy.

On the bottom corner of Charlotte Street and facing towards the sea, you will find an impressive temple of a building. The building was used as the Philp School between 1850 and 1891. Bailie Robert Philp was a linen manufacturer who owned the West Mill in Kirkcaldy. When he died in 1828 he left all his estate for the education, books and clothing of poor children. Philp schools were funded in Kinghorn, Linktown, Kirkcaldy and Pathhead. The Philp schools all closed by 1891 due to the increase in local authority schools. The students who attended the Philp schools were known as “Philpers” and they used to march to Robert Philp’s grave on the anniversary of his birth every year as a tribute. Since then the building has served many functions.

The photo shows it as Caesars - that was some time ago, can't remember what it's called now - it has a name change quite frequently.

Anyhoo...doesn't help you much regarding James Kay - but at least you know somemore about the school he may of attended. 

[Jokdy]

Hmmm...just noted you have posted Philip's school...I misread it (still half asleep I guess), thought it was Philp. 

[Gensnr]

  Hello Goldie and Jokdy, many thanks for your very prompt replies.
The information you found, Goldie, is the info that I have, (taken from the Cyclopedia of NZ) and I don't know who edited the entry originally, but they didn't do a very good job. I know for certain James married in 1876 in Dunedin, NZ, and was 29, so that is why I am guessing his birth year was about 1847. In the listing of the Cyclopedia of New Zealand it has him born 1865 and then married 1875! I don't think a 10-year-old groom would have been acceptable!!
As to the school he attended, it may well have been Philp. Possibly another error in the entry not checked properly.
Thanks once again and cheers from Gensnr

[Jokdy]

The only James Kay I can find born in Kirkcaldy was one born in 1860.  There is a record of him as a seaman onboard the Larmoor, which left London for NSW in 1882.  His parents are listed as Alexander Kay and Isabella Graham.


 


You posted you had his history from his arrival.  Did he marry, did he have children?  What were the names of his children?  There's a chance he may have named a son after his father.

[Gensnr]

James Kay married Anne (Annie) Hogan 8 January 1876 in Dunedin, NZ. They married at St Josephs Church.
Their children were:
 William (b1876 d1930); John (b1878 d date unkn); James (b1880 d1898); Robert Joseph (my ancestor)(b1882 d1940);
Lott Augustine (b1884 d1921); Mary Ellen (or possibly Helen) (b1886 d1943); Andrew (b1888 d1917);
Annie (b1890 d1973).
I know from my mother that this was a very unhappy family, hence the reason we know so little. 
Cheers Gensnr

[AMBLY]

Hi

The text in that website (linked above)  describes Mr Kay being in the 'present tense'  - the 'cyclopedia was published in 1905 -  so, written he was alive.

I would say the "1865" birthdate is a typo, possibly modern, and is supposed to be, right or wrong,  1845.

The biographical information - his place & month of birth, his marriage date (albiet out by a year) and so on - probably all came from the man himself.

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

The Biography, describes him as having had 6 sons & 2 daughters - with 2 sons and one daughter, dead. You've  named  8 children, but both daughters living well past 1905......

This website, has Mary Ellen dying at age 14 in 1900?
http://www.familytreecircles.com/james-kay-anne-hogan-dunedin-new-zealand-19386.html

James' bio also states his 2nd Surviving son  was "a member of the Tenth Contingent, and returned to the colony after the close of hostilities".
Was this Robert Joseph, your ancestor, (which would mean John & James are the two deceased sons he mentions)

Applying the Scottish  naming pattern to the male children named,
1st son after James' father
2nd son after Annie's father (tick)
3rd Son after James himself (tick)

So James' father might be "William".

Applying the Scottish naming pattern to the female children named
1st daughter after Annie's mother
2nd daughter after James' mother
3rd daughter after Annie

Possibly Annie's mother was "Mary Ellen"
Possibly James' mother was "Ann", as well as his wife being Ann

The Scottish naming pattern was well adhered to and is a hugely usefull tool. As with all patterns there were devaitions. Also, the pattern often fell out of use if the family moved away from Scotland - so it's just a thought! Having said that, the boys definitely look "patterned"  to me.

Cheers
AMBLY