Lily Matthews

[nelwild]

Hello,

im wondering if anyone can please offer any thoughts on this:

the 1911 census shows:

William Spain jnr born 1890 Ramsgate,hawker.

Lily Spain born 1889 Portsmouth

Lily born 1911 Kent.

May Matthews born 1894 Southborough,hawker, sister-in-law.

living at Pie Alley Farm,Clapham Hill,Whitstable.This was a site of about 1 acre used for horse dealing and as a knackers yard.

There is a Lily Mathews born 1889 Portsmouth on the 1891:

William Mathews born 1866 Knaphill,Surrey horse dealer

Ann born 1869 Maidstone

Walter born 1887 Easing,Hampshire

Lily born 1889 Portsmouth.

in a show van in Guildford

the 1901 shows:

William Matthews born 1866 Knaphill hawker

Nancy born 1870 Knaphill

Mary born 1888 Knaphill

Nancy born 1899 Knaphill

No sign of Lily on 1901.

William married Nancy Collins sept quarter 1885 Maidstone under the name Walter Matthews.

There is a birth june quart 1866 Guildford for a Walter Matthews.


William/Walter is still alive on 1911.I can no longer view it but on my tree i have 1911 reveals he was a general hawker.

This all seems to fit OK,but looking at the marriage cert of William Spain/Lily Matthews again i realise ive made a big oversight:

William Spain married Lily Matthews 22/04/1907 Faversham Registry Office.He used his mothers surname of Brien(OBrien).

His age 21,batchelor,hawker,residence London Rd,Faversham then i think it says visitor but very unclear.Father William Brien(used wifes surname though they werent married)knackerman.

Lilys 20,spinster,no occupation,London Rd,Faversham,visitor?Then her father is very difficult to read.I originally thought it said Walter,but it actually looks like Wacter.The W is definately the same as Williams,the a is the same as in hawker,then it looks like c,then the er look the same as in hawker.But then under it in brackets is deceased.occupation is hawker.

The witnesses are W Matthews and A ? Head.

So i have a Lily on 1891,born in right time and place for my Lily, whose father was William and mother Ann,but by 1901 the mother is Nancy.William marries Nancy Collins using the name Walter,and theres a birth for Walter Matthews in Guildford 1866.My marriage cert shows someone who is almost certainly a Walter Matthews,deceased,as father of Lily,and a W Matthews as the witness.

Then on the 1911 William Matthews still alive in Surrey.

As i mentioned earlier theres no sign of Lily on 1901,nor of her sister May Matthews.

If anyone can make head nor tail of this and can help me unravel it id be really grateful,

thanks,

Nel.

[shaneooo]

possible walter with grand parents charles and mary mathews, stoke next guildford 1901
Class:  RG13; Piece:  602; Folio:  41; Page:  14.

shane.

[nelwild]

Thanks Shane,

this younger Walter is on the 1891 as the brother of the Lily who i think is mine.

On 1901 Walters parents are elsewhere with two other children:

Mary  born 1888

Nancy born 1899

Not sure where Mary is on 1891.

Younger Walter is on 1911 with wife Edie born 1884 Herne Bay,living in the open air in Surrey with a family of basketmakers called Vincent.
The way its written up suggests Edie is a Vincent,though no marriage found.

Whats thrown me about all this is the fact that the 1907 marriage shows Lilys father Wacter(Walter?) as deceased,yet this William is alive in 1911.

And whose the W Matthews who witnesses the marriage?Why does William marry Nancy using the name Walter?

Any other help would be greatly appreciated as im tearing me hair out over this,what little ive got left,

all the best,

Nel.

Ive also been unable to find Lily on 1901,nor her sister May born 1894 Southborough according to 1911.

[lolmac3]

Hi Nel

Reading this suddenly rang a bell 

I have a Walter Matthews that married a Nancy Spain, apprently she was quite well known, she had a son but no mention of a daughter, she also kept Walter a bit quiet as well as no one knew she had gypsy blood.

Hope it helps

Lorraine

[nelwild]

Hello Lorraine,

this is extremely intresting.Im very keen to know who Nancy Spain is as i dont quite follow the thread.

What i have is Walter Matthews marrying Nancy Collins sept quart 1885 Maidstone.

I believe hes the William Mathews born 1866 Knaphill,as his wife is Nancy on 1901,and theres a travelling Nancy Collins in the area born at right time.

Is there another Walter Matthews who married a Nancy Spain?I know William(Walter) had a son Walter born 1887.

On the 1911 i think his wifes names Edie,though not very clear,born c1890 Herne Bay.They are living with a travelling Vincent family,in a barn or open air if my memory  serves me,enumerated by police.I havent found a marriage and assumed she was a Vincent.

I cant find a Walter Mathews/Nancy Spain marriage,indeed no Nancy Spain marriages.

Please do you have any more info on Nancy Spain?

Im off out for a meal today as its my birthday,ive found some more stuff ill post later,

many thanks,

Nel.