Huguenot Ancestor - Help finding baptism

[rla10]

Hi everyone, I'm looking for the baptism of Thomas Spencer.

Born abt 1780 in London.

His children all baptised at St Leonard's, Shoreditch, although he lived in Marylebone, in particular on York Street. One of his daughters married at St James's, Westminster which is in very close proximity to York Street, so he might have been baptised there. He might also have been baptised at a Huguenot Church, but I have no knowledge of these. He was also listed as living on Holywell lane for one of his children's baptisms. This is really all I know about him. Occupation of Weaver runs through the family so that might confirm him.

Appreciative of any help

[anpefa1]

hi rla10
i've just googled huguenot churches in london and it is a virtual encylopedia, by the way york street is a fair distance from st james's (don't mean to be a party pooper) however, view google and you'll observe how the distribution is possible. good luck. tony 

[anpefa1]

sorry about this but my daughter asked if huguenots were bigger astronauts, can i have her sectioned? tony.

[rla10]

Hi Tony,

I haven't actually looked at the distance between St James' and York Street, but I googled York Street and found the following info:

York Street
Westminster, St. James's. (SW1) Formerly called Petty France, from the number of French refugees who settled here on the revocation of the Edict of Nantes by Louis XIV. (Reference: Jesse's London, vol. I, p. 185) Named after the Duke of York, afterwards James II. This was the first street in London paved for foot-passengers. (Reference: Smith's Streets of London, p. 41)

I'm sure your daughter would suit a straight-jacket!

Ryan

[Taidquest]

Tell your daughter thanks for the smiles her comment
 produced,we could do with some smiles here in Dublin
at the moment.
                                        
                                                            Anne

[richarde1979]

Hi Ryan

There were two 'Petty Frances' in London, one in the west around Westminster, largely a community of soldiers, clock makers, goldsmiths, silversmiths, and one in the east largely made up of Silk Weavers and Manufacturers. There were smaller communites elsewhere, such as Chelsea, Hoxton, and across the water in Wandsworth there  was a small community of Huguenot Felt Makers and Millliners. It's true that some families did have links to both Westminster and Spitalfields.

I have heard it mooted before that the Spencers Silk Weaving in the East End were of Huguenot stock, and it was originally Despencer. I've not actually found any evidence of that though. The particular family I researched seemed to be native English from Essex. Also this is a very broad, (but not entirely innacurate) generalisation, but I have found that the French families tended to live clustered in Spitalfields and Bethnal Green, whereas the English weavers, who were equally numerous were alot more predominate in Shoreditch. This was perhaps a division more pronounced early in the 18th century, and which slowly dissapeared altogether  in the second half and early 19th century as the two communities intermarried more and more and eventually blended into one. I think if there is any truth in the Despencer tale it is probably the fact that the English Spencers may originate from the Norman Despencer family who certainly did come over many years before, and were infamously linked with Edward II and his endless succesion of troubles.

Do you have any particular reason to think Thomas Spencer was a Huguenot decendant, apart from the area and the link to weaving? He may well have been, though perhaps through his maternal line?

Regards

Richard

[rla10]

Hi Richard,

Here are a few details about Thomas Spencer that lead me to think he might be of Huguenot descent:

Wife: Mary Beilling (surname linked to France)
He, along with his children were weavers, as you mentioned.
His daughter, my direct ancestor, Charlotte, married a William Bridges who was a silk weaver as was his father, grandfather and subsequent children.
William Bridges grandmother's maiden name is Simon, which might be French although I think perhaps a tad contrived.
On the Census returns for the later members of this family, they appear to live in communities of silk weavers - everyone on the same page is a silk weaver for many censuses.
On 3 our of 4 of Thomas' children's baptism records, he is listed as living on York Street and the only York Street I can find on modern and various older map of London is the one that is described as petty France on my post earlier.

I was a bit reticent and cautious about the York Street connection as most of those I am speaking about lived in the East End; however, the Charlotte Spencer I aforementioned lived in Bethnal Green with husband William Bridges, yet married at St James's, Westminster Piccadilly. So when St James's was mentioned in the same postcode as York Street, it all slotted into place.


When you say you researched for an Essex family, are speaking about in the 18th century, or you were researching the ancestor of a family that lives in Essex?

Ryan

[richarde1979]

Hi Ryan

There is no trace of a Thomas Spencer baptised in the Huguenot Churches, and the only near match I can find in the East of London, is a Thomas Spencer baptised 5 Apr 1778 at Christchurch Spitalfields. His parents seem to have been married at St Leonards Shoreditch (Thomas Spencer and Elizabeth Taylor 27 Sep 1772). There are however a few possibilities for West London, so if he had links to both places, it's hard to say if any do relate to him.

Simon certainly was a surname present amongst the Huguenot families who settled in East London as silk weavers, so a connection is possible on that line.

The Spencer family I traced I did not go into greatly, but was through a Mary Ann Spencer, born in Bethnal Green 13 Jan 1802 a Silk Weaveress. Her father David Spencer was also a Silk Weaver in Bethnal Green, but was born around 1782 in Essex.

There was certainly always as many English families (and later Irish) making a living as journeymen weavers as French in the East End, and English Silk Weavers were in the area before any French arrived. My own family tree is a mixture of both! Likely will find it is the same for your ancestors. They intermarried pretty freely roughly from 1750 onwards.

[rla10]

Hi Richard,

I have been searching endlessly in the East End and around Marylebone, in particular. Thomas' children were all baptised at St Leonard's Shoreditch, so that marriage you found for a possibility could well be them, but if there is no baptism for Thomas, it makes me wonder why they seemed to skip St Leonard's for Thomas' baptism. I have read stories from others with Huguenot ancestors that they baptised their children all over the place for no apparent reason.

Ryan