Florence Copperwheats parents?

[polidor]

Thanks for replying toni--every bit of info that comes along is a help  --as you say , the first 2 i think i can disregard.

However this Ancestry tree that usually corresponds quite well with my own has a Florence May b 1888  parents Frederick & Ann [just to throw another Flo into the works]

But--their Flo i cannot find on any census with them and Father Frederick is yet another cousin of the first 3 Fathers/Florences!!!!!

I think personally that they have slipped up somewhere with the Florence and Florence May Copperwheats and added one where it shouldn't be but before i get in contact with them again i really do need to have my own Florence facts right .

[polidor]

For John --with ref to---Have you got the marriage details which should name the father .... Marriage index at Bedford RD in June 1914 of Florence M Copperwheat to Christopher C A Darnell---This marriage is down in yet another Ancestry tree but with the parents again as Frederick Copperwheat & Ann.

Thet don't have a Florence or DOOOOO they!!!


HELP--i'm drowning in a sea of Flo Copperwheats 

A big P.S  if all the present helpers have had enough of poli and Florence and wish to leave the room--i quite understand

[toni*]

Ok here is what I have deduced

The GRO index shows  9 exact matches for Florence Copperwheat b. 1837-1916
As follows

Florence Mary b. 1879 Q2 Pottersbury 3b 28
Ethel Florence b. Q2 1888 St Geo Han Sq
Florence May b. Q3 1888 Ampthill 3b 355
Florence b. Q3 1889 Wandsworth 1d 603
Florence Ethel  b. Q4 1890 Ampthill 3b 340
Florence May b. Pancras Q1 1901 1b 136 or 1b 186
Florence Ivy b. Q3 1905 Islington 1b 317
Florence Mary b. Q4 1909 Ampthill 3b 310

There are 4 matches on the 1891 census which should be
Florence Mary, Florence May, Florence and Florence Ethel

They are shown as:
 Florence M b.circa 1879 Wolverton with father George and mother Mary E 
The Pottersbury reg. dis. Covers Wolverton
(Florence Mary marries in Q2 1908 Pottersbury 3b 69)

Florence b. circa 1889 Marston niece of Jonah & Mary Cook
Ampthill reg Dis covers Marston Moretaine
Florence b. 1890 Marston Mortaine the daughter of Charles & Janet
So one of these must be Florence May and the other Florence Ethel 

Florence b. 1890 Battersea aged 1  the daughter of Thomas & Ellen
This is Florence b. Q3 1889 Wandsworth she wouldn’t have had her second birthday by the time of the 1891 census and Wandsworth reg dis covers Battersea.
(her bp. shows her b. 10 June bp. 7 July)

None of these died between census or married
According to the GRO list above we should have 5 Florences in 1901 (this is discounting Ethel Florence , who I didn’t include in 1891 either) and indeed we do have 5 but not the 5 we want ……………… one is missing
From my previous post we have :

Florence E Copperwheat    wife of George G   b. circa 1878   Islington, London,

Florence Copperwheat d/o    Thomas & Ellen    b. circa 1889   Battersea, London,

Florence M Copperwheat    d/o George,& Mary E   b. circa 1879   Wolverton, Buckinghamshire,

Florence Copperwheat   d/o Charles &Janet   b. circa 1891   Marston, Bedfordshire,

Florence M Copperwheat    d/o George & Charlotte A   b. circa 1900   St Pancras, London,

And it is Florence the niece who is missing in 1901 and we still do not know if this is Florence Ethel or Florence May

Florence May b. 1901 was bp the same time as her brother Walter George on 17 Jan 1901.

Florence Ivy b. 1905 was the daughter of George Charles and Florence Charlotte
Florence Charlotte died in 1915

Florence (no middle name) marries William George  Philbrook in Wandsworth on 29.06.1912 her father was Thomas so this is the one b. 1890 Battersea

Ethel Florence L marries in 1908 in Croydon

Florence Maud Copperwheat dies in 1929 she is the wife of Alfred John Copperwheat

Florence M Copperwheat marries Christopher Darnell in 1914 as we have already accounted for Florence Mary this must be Florence May b. 1888 as Florence May b. 1901 was not old enough ditto Florence Mary b. 1909

Considering the location of the marriage between Florence M & Sidney A Maddison in 1937 being Ampthill I would suggest this is Florence Mary b. 1909
And the marriage between Florence M & William H Brown in 1927 Paddington is that of Florence May b. 1901

[toni*]

in 1905 one of these Florences sailed aboard the ship Majestic from Liverpool to New York she was aged 14years and 10 months and was a british citizen
her last place of residence is given as Woolton

possibly you can see who she sailed with here

http://www.ellisisland.org/sign/index.asp?login_targ=/search/shipManifest.asp%3FpID%3D102460060182&ACT=LL&section=3

added:
however she does appear on the 1910 US census which you can view for free on the new Beta familysearch site

Whitestown, Oneida, New York
Florence Copperwheat b. England   Dau. Single   White Female
Immigration Year   1905

Father's B.   England
Mother's B.   England

    
Parent   Charles Copperwheat   M   40y
Parent   Jennie Copperwheat   F   36y
Florence Copperwheat   F   19y
Frank Copperwheat   M   17y
William Copperwheat   M   13y
Sidney Copperwheat   M   11y
Morris Copperwheat   M   7y
Henry Copperwheat   M   2y
Percy Hudson   M   10y





 

[johnP-bedford]

I have access to a Genes Reunited tree that has the Florence born 1891, parents Charles Copperwheat & Janet Adelaide Hudson who married in Ampthill RD in June 1890 & Charles died New York 1926. The children of this couple in this tree include those on 1910 census. Charles was born 1870 Marston, son of William C & Edith Bull   

OK I say don't trust other people's GrU or Anc trees until you have verified the information yourself. Two peoples trees that say the same thing does NOT mean the information is correct.

This tree also has Florence born 1900 to George Copperwheat & Charlotte Wright. George born 1869, son of Robert C & Hannah Thomson. George is brother to Frederic who married Ann Parrott & as far as I've seen did not have a daughter Florence. So the Anc tree that suggest this is just guessing. Invest £9.25 for the marriage certificate, it will tell us hopefully who her father was, but this still may not be the one you're after.

Next Robert C b 1833 Marston is son of John C & Mary Nudd. They also had son John 1831 who married Lydia & they had daughter Rosa.

The water's a bit muddier now

John

[polidor]

toni and john--thank you both very much for all the searching you have done on my behalf--i'm very grateful.

I too have been sitting here nearly all afternoon shooting back and forth on the internet trying to get the correct parents and perhaps marriages for my Florences.

i am going to print off all you have found for me and try to digest it--and as john suggests i may well end up sending for 2 certs in particular--Florence m June quarter1914 in Bedford to Christopher Darnell and Florence m in Sep quarter in Paddington to William Brown. At the very least i should end up with some father's names and hopefully some family witnesses.

censuses are all very well if they contain the correct info which we all know is too much to expect--it would be lovely if full names, same birth years each census where in them --plus of course the fact that families were large and often had nieces/nephews staying with them and all the generations and brothers and sisters all gave their children the same names---arghhhhh

The Florence who went to the USA--- i have found the ships list and have noted the census sheets  which i am also going to follow up--might yield more info on a few more Copperwheats-- poli

[toni*]

I think by process of elimination I have matched up the correct marriages but there does seem to be the problem of which Florence is Florence May and which Florence is Florence Ethel which on the 1891 census and one is missing form 1901 however I have used exact matches in my search term mayhap she will pop up if I uncheck this box.

[toni*]

It might be worth you contacting Bedfordshire family history group  / society to ask for Copperwheat baptisms in Marston 1889-1890 they may help with your query even if you do not belong to them – the worse they can say is no.
Or contact Bedfordshire records office they may be able to help you for a small fee as you know where she was born and when.

[johnP-bedford]

from the 1911 census indexes I have found that Florence May Copperwheat born 1889 Marston is living in Bedford with Lydia born 1836.

Christphor Darnell is born 1890 Kempston & living in Bedford