Author Topic: I am new at this...  (Read 6183 times)

Offline Carole in Dallas

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I am new at this...
« on: Sunday 05 December 10 21:39 GMT (UK) »
I have started doing research into my English Lines...and have found books of Heraldry that have my relatives in them.  Some of the families included the Wylde family from Worcester, the Tracy family from Stanway, the Barrow family from Wedmore.  Viscount Robert Tracy II was a direct line of mine and I am still discovering other members on googlebooks. 

How did a coat of arms get passed down...if you were a woman in this line, did you lose your family coat...and how is a crest different from a coat of arms?
Wylde, Barrow, Andrews, Tracy, Tracey, Cocks, Dowdeswell, Roland, Steyner, Fewtrell, Gambuti, Nurmi, Haring, Requa, Blauvelt, Smith, Shirley, Kemp, Withey, Requa, Snider, Blauvelt, Sherwood, Yeury, Blaunch, Bell, Graham, Smith, Riker, Everetts, Bogaert, Everts, Evertse, Glaes, Laurens, Boogaertman, Cozyns

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Little Nell

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Re: I am new at this...
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 05 December 10 22:02 GMT (UK) »
A full coat of arms is a shield plus the crest which is on top of the shield.  The whole thing is known as an achievement of arms.  A crest can be displayed on its own, but to have a crest, there must also be a shield.

If both the bride and groom were from armigerous families, then during their lifetimes, the two coats of arms might be marshalled i.e. shown in two halves of the shield.  But their son would inherit only his father's arms.  He was also supposed to keep the pedigree up to date at the College of Arms, if I remember correctly, to prove his right to bear arms.  Only if the woman was an heiress where there were no sons to inherit, might the arms of her family be incorporated in some way into the arms of her husband e.g. quarters or impaling.  It is a complicated and requires far more space than here.

A good heraldry book might help you.  Check out your local reference library.  ;)

Nell
All census information: Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Carole in Dallas

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Re: I am new at this...
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 05 December 10 23:14 GMT (UK) »
That definitely has helped me...thanks so much. 
Wylde, Barrow, Andrews, Tracy, Tracey, Cocks, Dowdeswell, Roland, Steyner, Fewtrell, Gambuti, Nurmi, Haring, Requa, Blauvelt, Smith, Shirley, Kemp, Withey, Requa, Snider, Blauvelt, Sherwood, Yeury, Blaunch, Bell, Graham, Smith, Riker, Everetts, Bogaert, Everts, Evertse, Glaes, Laurens, Boogaertman, Cozyns

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Stephen J F Plowman

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Re: I am new at this...
« Reply #3 on: Monday 06 December 10 16:02 GMT (UK) »
Nell is essentially correct.  In the heraldic traditions of England & Wales, Ireland and Scotland (three separate heraldic jurisdictions) the Arms follow the legitimate male descendants of the original armiger.  Scottish heraldry does allow for the Arms to follow the surname – I’ll come back to Scotland’s peculiarities 

Generally, where the male line expires the Arms can descend through daughter(s) to be quartered by her children with the Arms of her husband.  She is known as a “heraldic heiress”, a status that is independent of any land or monies. It is quite possible for someone to become a “heraldic heiress” years after their death when a brother’s line becomes totally extinct in both the male & female line.  In England & Wales, if such an heiress had married someone who was not armigerous, then her Arms would remain in limbo until such time as a descendent in the male line of hers obtain a Coat of Arms with which to quarter them.

In Scotland the Arms follow the surname.  Thus it is quite possible for a daughter to pass on her father’s Arms to her offspring as their “main” Coat of Arms if both she and he carry her father’s surname.  A case in point is the Lady Saltoun, Head of the Name and Arms of Fraser.  Following the death of her only brother, she retained her paternal surname after marriage and so inherited her father’s Arms.  She has had no sons and so her eldest daughter has also retained the Fraser surname after marriage.  Another Scottish quirk is that, I believe, it is quite possible for a daughter to be designated the heraldic heir to Arms even if she has brothers. 

As to the inheritance of Arms; In England & Wales and, I believe, in Ireland, all legitimate male descendants of the original armiger inherit the Arms.  Recording their pedigree and/or applying marks of cadency to their Arms tend to be ignored.  In Scotland only the eldest son (or designated heir) inherit as of right.  Any siblings can use their father’s Arms differenced with a mark of cadency whilst under his roof.  Once they have reached adulthood they have to apply to the Lyon Court for their own Arms.
Plowman - Dorset
Gollop - Dorset
Taunton - Dorset
Carver - Norfolk
Oyns - all
Tweedy - all
Also British Heraldry (www.heraldry-online.org.uk)


Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: I am new at this...
« Reply #4 on: Monday 06 December 10 16:35 GMT (UK) »
There is one stage which has been missed out in the descent of a coat of arms to a heraldic heiress.  Once she inherits the arms and for the period while she is alive her shield will be shown on a small shield (an escutcheon) in the centre of her husbands shield.

These differences are particularly useful when interpreting hatchments (funeral shields) which are found in some old churches as they can show the order in which people died.  However this is another subject.

David
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Carole in Dallas

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Re: I am new at this...
« Reply #5 on: Monday 06 December 10 16:53 GMT (UK) »
Further clarification....when the designation Esquire is placed at the end of the name, does that mean that individual had rights to a coat of arms?  Is there only one male that is entitled to continue with that coat of arms?
Wylde, Barrow, Andrews, Tracy, Tracey, Cocks, Dowdeswell, Roland, Steyner, Fewtrell, Gambuti, Nurmi, Haring, Requa, Blauvelt, Smith, Shirley, Kemp, Withey, Requa, Snider, Blauvelt, Sherwood, Yeury, Blaunch, Bell, Graham, Smith, Riker, Everetts, Bogaert, Everts, Evertse, Glaes, Laurens, Boogaertman, Cozyns

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Carole in Dallas

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Re: I am new at this...
« Reply #6 on: Monday 06 December 10 16:55 GMT (UK) »
Another few questions...when you mentioned that the arms are quartered...what exactly does that mean? When I have done my searching in google books and have found books that were called Heraldry, it appeared to be a type of census record.  Were these visitations, as they referred to them, made only of those that held a coat of arms?  What was the significance and benefits of holding such arms?
Wylde, Barrow, Andrews, Tracy, Tracey, Cocks, Dowdeswell, Roland, Steyner, Fewtrell, Gambuti, Nurmi, Haring, Requa, Blauvelt, Smith, Shirley, Kemp, Withey, Requa, Snider, Blauvelt, Sherwood, Yeury, Blaunch, Bell, Graham, Smith, Riker, Everetts, Bogaert, Everts, Evertse, Glaes, Laurens, Boogaertman, Cozyns

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Stephen J F Plowman

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Re: I am new at this...
« Reply #7 on: Monday 06 December 10 20:52 GMT (UK) »
I'm afraid it is almost impossible to explain heraldry in a few posts.  In the interim you might like to have look through:

Heraldry, ancient and modern : including Boutell's Heraldry (1890)

The problem with heraldry is that the questions always seem to spring to mind.  :)


Plowman - Dorset
Gollop - Dorset
Taunton - Dorset
Carver - Norfolk
Oyns - all
Tweedy - all
Also British Heraldry (www.heraldry-online.org.uk)

Offline Carole in Dallas

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Re: I am new at this...
« Reply #8 on: Monday 06 December 10 22:14 GMT (UK) »
This truly has been fascinating...at times I feel as if I am reading an entirely different language, however .  Just got finished perusing the book,  "A Visitation of the Seats and Arms of the Noblemen and Gentlemen" written in 1853.  All of my English Lines seem to be involved with this and I don't have a clue at understanding it.  Deeply appreciative of the information you have given me.  Thanks once again.
Wylde, Barrow, Andrews, Tracy, Tracey, Cocks, Dowdeswell, Roland, Steyner, Fewtrell, Gambuti, Nurmi, Haring, Requa, Blauvelt, Smith, Shirley, Kemp, Withey, Requa, Snider, Blauvelt, Sherwood, Yeury, Blaunch, Bell, Graham, Smith, Riker, Everetts, Bogaert, Everts, Evertse, Glaes, Laurens, Boogaertman, Cozyns

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk