Author Topic: BALL family: South Normanton  (Read 2931 times)

Offline Newfloridian

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BALL family: South Normanton
« on: Monday 13 December 10 09:55 GMT (UK) »
I'm trying to untangle the BALL family (families) of South Normanton. I have the 1851-1861-1871-1881 census returns for the town (Mansfield, Nottingham!) which covers three generatrions living together.
Peter Ball and Ann Maddox appear to have had eight children between 1839 and 1855. Peter died before the 1871 census.
Over the last three censuses, there were no less than FIVE grandchildren living in the household but none of the children were described as married. Given that two were present on the 1861 census the most likely mother candidate is Harriett (b. abt 1839)
I would be grateful for a possible baptismal look up for the following (censuses they were listed on noted):
William Ball (abt 1857)  1861, 1871
Henry Ball (abt 1860)    1861, 1871, 1881
Peter Ball (abt 1865)     1871, 1881
Thomas Ball (abt 1867) 1881
John Ball (1868)            1871

Many thanks Alan
Leicester / Northampton: Craxford,  Claypole, Pridmore, Pollard, Tansley, Crane, Tilley
Derby: Naylor, Ball, Haywood
Buckinghamshire: Cook
London: Craxford, Lane Crauford
Tyneside: Nessworthy, Simpson
______________________________________
"I am, in point of fact, a particularly haughty and exclusive person, of pre-Adamite ancestral descent.
You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule."
  -  WS Gilbert (The Mikado)

Offline sunflower

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Re: BALL family: South Normanton
« Reply #1 on: Monday 13 December 10 13:16 GMT (UK) »
Hi Alan

South Normanton is covered on the IGI  1664 - 1868

I can only see these two -

Peter Ball 17 Aug 1865 to Mary
William Ball 21 Jan 1852 to Harriott

Carol
Derby- Bamford,Slater,Marriott,Lee,Fox,Hopkinson,Hawksley, Furniss, Froggatt, Stodd.
Notts - Breeding, Lacey Marriott ,Kershaw,Chambers,Geeson,Mitchell,Watts,Potts,Slack,Robinson, Cooper
Yorkshire - Potts, Bell, Derbyshire, Kershaw
Worcestershire - Dyson, Summers, Dearn, Jones
Warwickshire - Russon
Leicestershire - Stodd, Sarson, Berridge, Watts, Bradshaw.
Middlesex / Surrey - Markham, Pearce, Kalaher, Barrett

This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline shirl100

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Re: BALL family: South Normanton
« Reply #2 on: Monday 13 December 10 16:11 GMT (UK) »
Also on the familysearch pilot site it appears there is a Harriet Ball with a  child bap S. Normanton - Mahala (?) female, 12 Nov 1851 mother Harriet. Harriet's birth was registered q/e Jun 1838 so she may just have been old enough to have had a child in 1851 (and again for the William b1852  mentioned below - there are a couple of possible births registered 1850/1851 for him but also another 3 possibles which fit more to the cenus birth year of abt 1857, they were registered in 1856/7/8 , all Mansfield District -  one of the latter ones may be the William you are after rather than the 1852 one)

Also from freebmd there is a marriage for a Harriet Ball q/e Jun 1860 Mansfield District (which covers South Normanton) so if your Harriet appears unmarried with parents Peter and Ann in 1861 then  are there 2 Harriets?

Shirl
North,Noble,Harrison,Seller - North Riding Yorks parishes
Brown,Brooks,Watson - Belper/Duffield Derbys
Hole - Ashover Derbys
Webb, Flavell, Mason - Staffs (mainly Sedgley)
Bevan,Beamond - Chirbury Shropshire
Longridge - Northumberland/Durham
Freeman - Hampshire, Oxfordshire,Sussex
Smith - Derbyshire and Yorkshire
Whitehead - Yorkshire
Morris - St Pancras Yorkshire etc


Offline Djspears

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Re: BALL family: South Normanton
« Reply #3 on: Friday 22 May 20 06:09 BST (UK) »
Does anyone go further back? 1665 for Thomas Ball, William Ball born June 25,1705,  Anthony Ball born March 1731, Reuben Ball born December 1803?

Thank ypu,
Danielle

Offline Newfloridian

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Re: BALL family: South Normanton
« Reply #4 on: Friday 22 May 20 09:02 BST (UK) »
Hi Danielle

I'm sure this family has taxed many a researcher over the years since this subject was first raised. I have charted 276 members of the Ball family in my own database, mostly from South Normanton and surrounds but very few convincingly going back before the mid 1700s.

If you can get hold of it, perhaps the best summing up of the local situation is a little book called "A Village of Considerable Extent" by Pamela Sharpe which she wrote in 1982 (she is now Professor of History at the School of Humanities, University of Tasmania). She wrote the following:

"Illegitimacy was high in South Normanton. In 1852 16 out of 54 children baptised were illegitimate ... a self perpetuating subculture of continued poverty promoted generation after generation of illegitimate children in certain families. In South Normanton the Ball family seem to have been the major example. Illegitimacy seems to rise from 1795 and the unmarried mothers who claimed relief at this time belonged to families whose names recur in poor relief documents - Ball, Hind, Kite, Marriott, Bacon, Hill (most on my list!!!) Many were sisters or "repeaters" who had one or more illegitimate children."

Based on this, I came to the following conclusion: We might know that there are two children attributed to a Jane Ball and three children attributed to a Hannah Ball in the Parish records between 1800 and 1810 - all without a named father; we also know from Bastardy records that a Jane Ball had received maintenance for a child from Thomas Kyte and a Jane Ball had received maintenance from a William Marriott. What we don't know is that in a village 121 houses and an estimated population of 588 (in 1788), how many individual Jane or Hannah Balls there might be of young child bearing age living there at the same time. Also the resultant children were usually sent off into forced apprenticeship so it is almost impossible to follow what happened to them. My own take on this is that when you see a marriage pattern between the Ball / Marriott; Ball / Kyte or Marriott / Kyte families midway into the next century (ie two generations further on) these are almost certainly (and more than likely unknowing) marriages between cousins. I suspect that as we piece together a comparison between the parish, bastardy and removal records we will find more and more unions from this area which fall into this category.

How do you link in to the Ball family? If you do get any further forward with your studies do let us know.

Cheers Alan
Leicester / Northampton: Craxford,  Claypole, Pridmore, Pollard, Tansley, Crane, Tilley
Derby: Naylor, Ball, Haywood
Buckinghamshire: Cook
London: Craxford, Lane Crauford
Tyneside: Nessworthy, Simpson
______________________________________
"I am, in point of fact, a particularly haughty and exclusive person, of pre-Adamite ancestral descent.
You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule."
  -  WS Gilbert (The Mikado)

Offline Djspears

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Re: BALL family: South Normanton
« Reply #5 on: Friday 22 May 20 16:34 BST (UK) »
Hello Alan,

My mother is actually a Ball, that was her maiden name.

I didnt realize that illegitimacy was so profound.  I will definitely look for that book.  I am quickly realizing that finding accurate information in the 1700's is quite difficult.

Thank you for your information.

Danielle

Offline Newfloridian

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Re: BALL family: South Normanton
« Reply #6 on: Friday 22 May 20 17:00 BST (UK) »
If you send me a PM perhaps we can compare notes. You'd be surprised how many cousins crawl out of the woodwork when you are least expecting them.

Alan
Leicester / Northampton: Craxford,  Claypole, Pridmore, Pollard, Tansley, Crane, Tilley
Derby: Naylor, Ball, Haywood
Buckinghamshire: Cook
London: Craxford, Lane Crauford
Tyneside: Nessworthy, Simpson
______________________________________
"I am, in point of fact, a particularly haughty and exclusive person, of pre-Adamite ancestral descent.
You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule."
  -  WS Gilbert (The Mikado)

Offline mike gordon

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Re: BALL family: South Normanton
« Reply #7 on: Friday 22 May 20 20:54 BST (UK) »
Is there any connection to the Stoke On Trent area, we have dozens of Balls in our tree, all around or in Stoke.

Offline clayton bradley

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Re: BALL family: South Normanton
« Reply #8 on: Friday 22 May 20 21:06 BST (UK) »
Staffordshire has a high concentration of people with the name Ball. There is a religious census in 1532 with many Ball names on it. I think the place with the most families was Warslow, but they were already spread around the county.
If you look at the name Ball in regular censuses it looks as though there are at least 3 origins, one in Lancashire, one in Staffordshire and one further south but all on the west of the country. The trouble is all these families have moved about and bled into one another so it is difficult to distinguish them.
I spent some time looking at South Normanton for my husband's family but a Y-DNA test took him back to Staffordshire.
Broadley (Lancs all dates and Halifax bef 1654)