21st London Battalion, First Surrey Rifles

[Glynnis]

On 23 Jan 1916 my uncle George Frederick Ward was killed on the Western Front. Another Uncle , same regimnet, Arthur Runacres, was severely wounded when he went to give assistance. I haven't been able to find out in what action this may have occurred. Does anyone know where the 1st Surrey Rifles were at this point of WW1? Thanks

[km1971]

There were three battalions in the 21st London Regiment - 1/21st, 2/21st and 3/21st. Luckily only the 1/21st were in France in January 1916. They were part of this division - http://www.1914-1918.net/47div.htm - and there does not appear to have been a major battle going on at the time. It may have been in a night patrol or either defending against a trench raid, or taking part in one, or he may have been killed by artillery, either in the trench or while bringing up supplies.

If you can get to Kew you should be able to find the battalion war diary - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/british-army-war-diaries-1914-1918.htm - which may give some clues.

Ken

[Glynnis]

Thanks for the prompt reply. It's the first time I've used RootsChat and I'm really impressed!
Yes, they were in the 1/21st, I should have said that.
Arthur Runacres who was wounded had a bullet wound to the shoulder. I have his medical records, his shoulder was completely destroyed, but they did in fact save his arm. I seem to remember he had some use of it below the elbow.
The story is that they were in the trenches at the time, so maybe as you say artillery fire.
George Frederick is on the Arras Memorial. His number was 1466, would I be right in thinking he joined up early on as the number is quite low. He died 6 days after his 20th birthday.
I will follow up the references, and again, thanks a lot. I have a feeling I'll be back with further queries!

[km1971]

The London Regiment were pre-WW1 territorials so he could have enlisted from the age of 17. They started at 1 in 1908. As they only had one battalion before WW1 He may (just) have enlisted before the war started.

You really need a 21st London numbering expert, or you can become one yourself if you have Ancestry. Firstly, search for nearby men here - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp - then click on search, and look for Corps = 21st london; Other Keyword = 146?, 145?, 147? etc. You will need 10-12 uncommon names. You can then look for their records on Ancestry in order to get the date of enlistment.

Before WW1 they were just the 21st. They became 1/21st when they introduced 2/21st and later 3/21st as they expanded.

Ken

[Glynnis]

Yes I do belong to Ancestry and will definitely try that. Thanks a lot.

[forester]

Glynnis,

1466 looks like it was issued around mid-1913.

You are in luck, in that the war diary for 1/21 Bn London Regiment, for the period you want, is available for down load for £3-50.

WO 95/2732 or the link below:


http://www.rootschat.com/links/0asc/

Phil

[Glynnis]

Thanks for both pieces of information Phil. The information is out there isn't it, it's just a question of getting to it. That's great. I just feel we owe it to these poor brave young men of our families not to forget them and what they went through. Thanks again.

[Glynnis]

Just spent a remarkable time reading the War Diary for 1/21st London Regiment from when they landed at Le Havre on 16th March 1915 till the day of George Frederick Ward's death on 26th Jan 1916.
On 24th 'the Brigade was in support behind Loos when all the trenches were heavily shelled'.
On the 26th 'the Battalion took up an advanced support position owing to great artillery activity on the part of the enemy. 3 companies were at the disposal of 3 other Battalions and the remainder were at the disposal of the Brigade.'
Somewhere within that day he was killed, and his brother-in-law Arthur Runacres was severely wounded.
How amazing that I can get that close to what happened.
And also reading the year leading up to that was very poignant - seeing where they were each day and following their route across Northern France.
Thanks so much Phil and Ken, would never have got there without you.
Happy Christmas, Glynnis.

[Ben_Samuel_BBC]

Hi Glynnis,

My name is Ben Samuel - I'm a producer at the BBC. I'm looking to develop a documentary, possibly focussing on the 21st Surrey Regiment in WW1.

I'm really interested in the story of your uncles. With this in mind, it would be great if you could get in touch. My email is Ben.Samuel@bbc.co.uk

Thanks very much,

Ben