Parallel Essex Families? Need help!

[NoNameEntry]

I am looking for any information on the GOODEVE surname.  I'm sure the Southend-on-Sea GOODEVE Family is not mine.

Henry GOODEVE (Sr.)
b. Abt. 1825; Great Waltham, Essex
Occupation: Labourer
Enlisted in The 56th Essex Regiment of Foot on 31 Oct 1842
Age: 17 yrs. old

m. Catherine Downes 13 Jun 1857 at the Roman Catholic Chapel, Pembroke Dock, Pembroke
Henry's age at time of Marriage: 32 yrs.
Catherine's age at time of Marriage: 22 yrs.
Henry's Rank at time of marriage is Soldier

Served for a total of 20 yrs. 298 days in the military with 14 yrs. 8 months spent abroad in Gibraltar, Bermudas, Malta and East Indies (Census Lists can't help me here *sigh*).
Rank: Sergeant

Henry & Catherine issue 2 sons & 1 daughter (that I know of):

(1.) Leonard Thompson GOODEVE
b. 28 Aug 1862 Deesa, East Indies
(Have all this guy's info. & his military records)

(2.) Henry GOODEVE (Jr.)
b. Khandella 1864

(3.) Catherine (a.k.a. Kate) GOODEVE (Jr.)
b. 13 Jan 1867 Chelmsford, Essex

Henry (Sr.) was discharged to a Chelsea Pension at the Regimental Depot, Colchester on 7 Jun 1864 yet his daughter Catherine is listed as a military birth 3 yrs. after Henry (Sr.) was discharged.

Also, I think Catherine (Sr.) dies of complications from child birth in 1867 because I have the Birth Entry for Catherine (Jr.) but from the BMD site, there's also a death for a Catherine GOODEVE (have yet to order it), and the age of the mother fits the age of Catherine's (Sr.) birth year of 1835.

Henry Sr. is still in receipt of pension as at 1878 Aug 13 and for unknown reasons payments were being made to a Reverend Frederick B. Lipscombe.  On an 1881 Census Frederick Lipscombe is listed as a Curator of Brentwood.

There is also an 1879 death listed for Henry Sr. in Billericay at the age of 53 – comes close to his birth year of 1825 (have yet to order death entry).

Whew... all this information for this one favour...

I'm trying to find Henry GOODEVE Senior's father.  From Henry & Catherine's Marriage Entry, Henry's father is listed as Leonard "Tomson" GOODEVE (I think the priest misspelled the middle name and it should be "Thompson" – I also wish I could decipher this Leonard's occupation stated on Henry & Catherine's 1857 Marriage Entry.  The first 3 letters look like "Ter" or "Tar".  At least this Leonard isn't deceased at the time of the marriage.  From Henry's Military Records though, this GOODEVE family should be in the Great Waltham, Essex area in 1825.

Many thanks in advance
 

[Barbara F]

Hi

I don't know whether you already have this but this looks like your family in 1871

1871 census RG10 1662 f 184

29 Upper Bridge Row Chelmsford

John Brett 29 Head Schoolmaster b Bury St Edmunds
Mary Brett 24 Wife b Ireland
Henry Brett 2 Son b Chelmsford
Mary W Brett 1 Dau b Chelmsford
Henry Goodeve 47 Boarder Widower Pensioner from the Army b Great Waltham
Susan T Goodeve 8 Boarder b India
Katherine Goodeve 4 Boarder b Chelmsford
Albert E Goodeve 7 Boarder b Epping

Looks like there are a couple of extra children.

Will see what else I can find.  I assume you have Kate as a servant in the 1881 census?

Barbara

Welcome to Rootschat 

[Barbara F]

A bit more information

The IGI  http://www.familysearch.org  has this baptism at Great Waltham

04 Oct 1798 Leonard Thompson Goodeve
Parents Leonard Thompson Goodeve and Elizabeth Nancy

Also
17 Sep 1772 Leonard Thompson Goodeve
Parents William Goodeve and Elizabeth

And this marriage
14 Oct 1794 Thaxted
Leonard Thompson Goodeve and Elizth Nancy Buttle

Although Essex RO is putting PRs on line the Great Waltham records available at the moment are too early for your Henry’s baptism.  This is what is available at present
http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk/displayParishContents.asp?selAlphabet=G&selParish=6039&selChurch=6642

It would be worth checking the IGI and the family search pilot site for more information.

Barbara

[cath151]

Hi,
There is the following in 1841 transcibed Goodine but last three  letters are obscured on image.
Ho107/325 13/23  Stacys, Broomfield, Essex

Leonard Good---  40  Ag Lab
Elizabeth  "           35
Henry       "           15
Richard     "           10
All born County

Ties in with Leonard J( T?) Goodeve in Broomfield in 1851 HO107/1776  142 /1

Cathy

[Barbara F]

That looks good Cathy.  It fits in with the IGI baptism info as does Broomfield.

Deaths Dec 1872    GOODEVE  Leonard Thompson  75  Dunmow  4a 238

Barbara

[NoNameEntry]

Hi

I don't know whether you already have this but this looks like your family in 1871

1871 census RG10 1662 f 184

29 Upper Bridge Row Chelmsford

John Brett 29 Head Schoolmaster b Bury St Edmunds
Mary Brett 24 Wife b Ireland
Henry Brett 2 Son b Chelmsford
Mary W Brett 1 Dau b Chelmsford
Henry Goodeve 47 Boarder Widower Pensioner from the Army b Great Waltham
Susan T Goodeve 8 Boarder b India
Katherine Goodeve 4 Boarder b Chelmsford
Albert E Goodeve 7 Boarder b Epping

Looks like there are a couple of extra children.

Will see what else I can find.  I assume you have Kate as a servant in the 1881 census?

Barbara

Welcome to Rootschat 

Thanks so much for the welcome Barbara & the info.  I have seen this Census and I think the person who wrote down the boarders names, really got it wrong.
It's even more disappointing if it was the Schoolmaster giving the info. to the Census taker.
I've taken everything into consideration as to how this Census might have got so botched such as different accents, writing down how something sounds.
 
I think it is my family & here's where I think the mistakes are:

(1.) Susan T. is supposed to be Leonard T. because Susan is 8 yrs. old b. in India.  That means Susan would've been born in 1863 – Leonard was born in 1862 in India.  The Army Birth Index doesn't show a listing for a Susan T.  And the Susan I did find on FreeBMD would've been 25 yrs. old at the time of the 1871 Census, so not her.

(2.) I think Albert E is supposed to be Henry.  The Albert in this Census is 7 yrs. old, which means he was born in 1864.  Henry was born in 1864, but in Khandella (India).  I'm not sure what Epping is doing there.  Henry was a military birth, and the military (for the most part) is fairly exact on their records.  From the FreeBMD, the only Albert E. GOODEVE I can find is one born in West Ham (wrong location) in 1887 (16 yrs. after the 1871 Census).

It's these two names on this Census that really threw me off.  I can't see how an 8 yr. old little boy is mistaken for an 8 yr. old little girl, or how the Schoolmaster can be unobservant to not know the difference between the genders of his own boarders, or how Leonard can even sound like Susan.

Although, I think what really happened is, this was probably around the time when Henry's (Sr.) health was failing him, because from Henry's military records, in 1878, a Reverend is handling his financial affairs, so something had to have been going on with Henry's (Sr.) health, and I'm thinking perhaps a speech impediment, which is maybe how the Census got botched.  Just can't wrap my head around the whole mistaken gender thing.  If Susan is actually Leonard, I have a transgendered ancestor.

I do have Kate as a Servant Girl on an 1881 Census.  Poor thing, her mother died 3 months after she was born, her brother Leonard joins the Essex Regiment when he's 14, I have no idea where the other brother Henry disappears to, and then their father Henry dies in 1879 so by time she's 14, she's already a servant.  It's just so sad.

[NoNameEntry]

A bit more information

The IGI  http://www.familysearch.org  has this baptism at Great Waltham

04 Oct 1798 Leonard Thompson Goodeve
Parents Leonard Thompson Goodeve and Elizabeth Nancy

Also
17 Sep 1772 Leonard Thompson Goodeve
Parents William Goodeve and Elizabeth

And this marriage
14 Oct 1794 Thaxted
Leonard Thompson Goodeve and Elizth Nancy Buttle

Although Essex RO is putting PRs on line the Great Waltham records available at the moment are too early for your Henry’s baptism.  This is what is available at present
http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk/displayParishContents.asp?selAlphabet=G&selParish=6039&selChurch=6642

It would be worth checking the IGI and the family search pilot site for more information.

Barbara

O.K. let me see if I have this right, and I apologize in advance for how winded this is going to sound and thank you so much for bearing with me.

Christening
Father: William GOODEVE
Mother: Elizabeth
Son: Leonard Thomson GOODEVE; Gender: Male Christening: 17 SEP 1772 Great Waltham, Essex, England

Marriage
Husband: Leonard Thompson GOODEVE
Wife: ELIZTH. Nancy BUTTLE
Marriage: 14 OCT 1794 Thaxted, Essex, England

If this is the 1772 Leonard, then he'd be abt. 22 yrs. old at the time of his marriage.

Christening
Father: Leonard Thompson GOODEVE
Mother: Elizabeth Nancy
Son: Leonard Thomson GOODEVE; Gender: Male Christening: 04 OCT 1798 Great Waltham, Essex, England

If this is the 1772 Leonard, then he'd be abt. 26 yrs. old at the time of his son Leonard's christening.

I'm tying this 1798 Leonard to the 1872 Leonard because it all adds up.

That looks good Cathy. It fits in with the IGI baptism info as does Broomfield.

Deaths Dec 1872 GOODEVE Leonard Thompson 75 Dunmow 4a 238

Barbara

I'm also tying the 1798 Leonard to the 1841 Census, even though the 1841 puts Leonard being born in 1801 (it's expected to be off by a few years).

Hi,
There is the following in 1841 transcibed Goodine but last three  letters are obscured on image.
Ho107/325 13/23  Stacys, Broomfield, Essex

Leonard Good---  40  Ag Lab (b. abt. 1801)
Elizabeth  "           35 (b. abt. 1806)
Henry       "           15 (b. abt. 1826)
Richard     "           10 (b. abt. 1831)
All born County

Ties in with Leonard J( T?) Goodeve in Broomfield in 1851 HO107/1776  142 /1

Cathy

I'm not familiar with an 1851 Leonard GOODEVE in Broomfield

Here's where it gets interesting, because now, according to the 1841 Census, I'm looking for a Leonard Goodeve, who yet again, married another Elizabeth, and this is what I come up with.

Christening
Father: Leonard Thompson GOODEVE
Mother: Elizabeth Ann
Son: HENRY GOODEVE; Gender: Male Christening: 10 AUG 1806 Great Waltham, Essex, England

If this is the 1772 Leonard, he'd be 34 yrs. old at the time of his son Henry's christening.

This can't be the 1798 Leonard because he'd only be 8 yrs. old in 1806 at the time of Henry's christening.

This Leonard and Elizabeth are not the same Leonard and Elizabeth in the 1841 Census because a mother (Elizabeth) and a son (Henry) can't both be born in 1806.

So the 1798 Leonard Thompson GOODEVE would have to be my 1825 Henry GOODEVE's father.

The Henry GOODEVE I'm after, was born in 1825

There's a 20 yr. difference between the Henry GOODEVE (Father: Leonard Thompson GOODEVE; Mother: Elizabeth Ann) christened in 1806 and my Henry GOODEVE born in 1825.

I can't find my Leonard and Elizabeth from the 1841 Census.  Is it possible to have 3 sets of Leonards all marrying women by the name of Elizabeth?  If so, parallel families...UGH!

[Dave Jones]

Bury & Norwich Post Tuesday 5th November 1867
Died
On the 27th ult. in her 71st year, Mary Catherine Goodeve, for fifty years tenant of Dairy Green Farm, Thaxted

Essex Standard Friday 27th December 1872
Deaths
Goodeve – Dec. 15th at Dairy Green Farm, Thaxted, Leonard Thompson Goodeve, aged 74 years.

[NoNameEntry]

Isn't genealogy fun?  The answer to one problem leads to two more!

Thank you for the obits. Dave!  It's nice to know the name of the farm.  It'd also be nice to get my hands on an 1861 Census to find out how this Mary Catherine fits into the picture.  Maybe an unmarried sister or sister-in-law to this Leonard Thompson GOODEVE as she's listed as a tenant?

On 13 Jan 1867 Catherine GOODEVE is born and her mother Catherine (nee DOWNES) GOODEVE dies in the June quarter of 1867 at the age of 32.

Then this Mary Catherine GOODEVE dies at the age of 71 in 1867.

The 1872 obit. for Leonard matches the death entry Barb posted for Leonard though.