Marriage lookup please Raydon PR - DOUBLE COMPLETED Thank you

[MaxD]

IGI and other sources have the marriage 25 Sep 1831 of Joseph Double to Sarah King.  Census 1841 Raydon has a Joseph and Sarah, in Raydon, both "of the county".   The fact that I would be grateful if someone could check from the PR is where did Sarah King/her parents come from.  Thank you.

[Annette7]

Can't help with the marriage look-up I'm afraid but intrigued as to what happened to this couple after 1841.    Can't see them on census and there's conflicting info. on some Ancestry Public Trees.   None of the trees show a death for Joseph, some show a date of 1878 for Sarah (but that Sarah is not her - that Sarah was the wife of a John in Bentley).    Also, Joseph and Sarah had no children in 1841 (unusual for the time after 10 years marriage) and none of the trees show any children after then either.

Annette

[MaxD]

Annette - I hope I can intrigue you further.  I must admit there is a background to my query.  My understanding of my Double ancestors further back than my greatgrandfather Joseph Double is based on research done by many others and which can be found, as you have seen, in a number of public trees.  There is also a very detailed history which can be found on Google which seems to be the basis for most of those trees.  Trouble is, as I have done some of my own research, I, like you, found some anomalies that I have been trying to resolve for some time.  I have contacted a number of tree owners with the aim of discussing these but have never been happy that they were presenting their own original research so I didn't get far.
Specifically, from newspapers of the period, I found a Joseph Double, born about 1809, who was transported to Tasmania in 1842 and who sent for his wife Sarah in 1852 after his sentence (all this I checked out with the Tasmanian archives).  The address given for her when sent for is the address at which a Sarah Double was living, married but no husband present, in Ipswich in 1851.  She is described as coming from Liverpool.  The public history and some trees have a Joseph Double born Apr 1809 marrying a Sarah King (born Raydon).  The 1841 census has a Joseph and Sarah, both described as born in Suffolk .  So what I am attempting to do first is confirm (or deny!) my theory that this Joseph is the transported one and that his wife Sarah was from Liverpool.  That would put her birth place and the death date you spotted in doubt.  It would also explain why they don't appear in UK censuses after 1841 (there is a possible death date for a Joseph in Tasmania in 1883 but no sign of a Sarah death there).  There is an associated mystery in that a Joseph Double (and I think it is the same one) was sentenced to transportation in 1840 but must not have gone - I've had little success with this either.  Sorry if this rambles a bit but it is complicated!
Not sure either that PRs would show on reflection where she was born anyway!

[Annette7]

It certainly is intriguing.   The marriage record is not likely to be of much help - the likelihood is that they were both living in the parish at the time and would simply say both were of that parish.   Aside from status the only other thing it would show is names of witnesses.

I can help as to what happened to this Sarah.   You state that Sarah Double, born Liverpool, was living in Ipswich in 1851 but the only Sarah Double I can find born Liverpool was living in Harwich, Essex.   Was this just a typo on your part?   If so, and this Sarah is the wife of Joseph, she didn't go to Australia.    She is still living in Harwich in 1861 - still shown as Marr. and a Boarder with a Samuel Porter - her occupation 'Housekeeper' - ref. RG9 - 1094 - 46 - 18.   

Sarah Double subseqently married said Samuel Porter in Dec.qtr.1862 Tendring registration district and they are together in Harwich in 1871 - ref. RG10 - 1680 - 72 - 49.

Still together in 1881 but by 1891 Samuel Porter is a widower and an inmate of the Union Workhouse at Tendring- ref. RG12 - 1401 - 129 - 2

Sarah Porter died 1887 Tendring and Samuel Porter died 1898 Tendring.

If Sarah Double was indeed the wife of Joseph she clearly decided not to go to Australia and no doubt got fed up with life as she was and decided to marry Samuel Porter.   I believe abandoned wives often remarried after 7 years but at least she waited 20!!!!

Annette 

[MaxD]

Thanks for your interest.
Ipswich was a typo! I agree with what you say about the marriage record - my query was a forlorn hope.There was so little variety in male christian names then, and everybody lived in the same small area of Suffolk, that I thought a Liverpudlian would stand out and the previously mentioned Double histories/trees have Sarah born in Raydon.
I had seen Sarah in 1861 but had not looked for a later marriage so thanks for following that trail.  The Tasmanian convict record for Joseph states that Sarah arrived in Jul 1852 on board the Australasia.  What I have not yet followed up is whether she stayed there (and as I said, I haven't found a Tasmanian death for her).   Perhaps she didn't and it is indeed she back in Harwich in 1861.
Trying not to forget that the main aim is to identify the Joseph Double who was transported in 1842 and who asked for his wife Sarah (at the same address in Harwich as in 1851) who says she in born in Liverpool.   The histories/trees have him marrying Sarah King but if she is the Liverpudlian then she didn't die in 1878 and wasn't from Raydon and (unless I've muddied the waters) those are the anomalies in the public trees/histories I am digging away at.
It is most useful having someone else to bounce this off.  Your thoughts are enough for me to begin to think there are indeed problems in the trees, the difficulty is finding a way of getting at the true story.  Any thoughts (concentrating on the Joseph/Sarah pair?)

[Annette7]

If we stick purely to the facts, the Sarah in Harwich is the wife of the Joseph Double in Australia (her address in 1851 matching the records in Tasmania).

Just discovered something and I now believe she did go to Australia or set out for there anyway.   I found on Ancestry under England, Alien Arrivals a Mrs. Double arrived in Harwich August 1855 on the Orion bound from Antwerp to Harwich.    This just has to be Sarah.   She must have made her way back in stages I guess, the last stage being from Antwerp.   Don't quite know how she got on an 'Alien' list - apart from a Mrs. Brown all the other names are definitely 'foreign'.   

If Joseph Double is your gt. grandfather then he had to have fathered at least one child.   Who was this and are Joseph and Sarah given as the parents or did he have a child with someone else?   If Sarah arrived in 1852 and came back to England 2 years later I guess she had time to have had a child although she'd have been around 40 but I find it hard to believe she'd have left it in Australia (her only child?).

Still intrigued.

Annette

[Annette7]

Sorry - just realised she was actually in Australia 3 years, not 2.

Annette

[MaxD]

Annette
Great discovery!  I would agree that it is Sarah returning, hence her subsequent appearance back in Harwich in 1861 and her later marriage to Porter.  Could also explain why no Sarah Double death in Tasmania.
Sorry I was unclear before.  This Joseph Double is not my greatgrandfather.  He was also born Raydon, also in 1809 but in June rather than Feb, son of Joseph and Elizabeth (Goymer).  (The Tasmanian was the son of John and Elizabeth (Seddon)).  I am happy with ggrandfather's family and descendants (but see what I mean about the lack of variety in names).
What you've helped (exceedingly so!) to do is perhaps confirm my suspicion that Tasmanian Joseph's wife Sarah was not from Raydon and did not die in 1878 (these were the anomalies in the existing histories I was trying to solve).  That then goes on to ask - was she Sarah King (the IGI marriage in 1831 is submitted). Don't know if I'll be able to establish that.  Still left to do is to solve the mystery of the Joseph Double sentenced to 10 years transportation to Bermuda in 1840.  I have been unable to find any record of the transportation after the prison hulk record that seems to show him going to Bermuda in Jul 1840.  This Joseph could well be my ggrandfather as his wife and children were in the Tattingstone Workhouse in 1841 with no sign of him anywhere although he appears in 1851 to marry again (first wife died 1847) and produce among others my grandfather.  I'd like to be able to prove this theory but again, don't hold out much hope (unless we find another "alien" returnee).  Thank you again for your continuing interest.  MaxD  (Just found a Sarah King birth in Liverpool 4 Apr 1812 which would fit)