KIRWAN, Kilbride, Roscommon

[mh_deadwoods]

Hi, I'm trying to trace my maternal grandmother, who was a Keirven. Her family originally came from Ireland via a few generations around Newcastle in the UK.

We've been able to trace Patrick Keirven to Patrick KIRWAN who was baptised in the Church of St. Brigid, Four-Mile House, Co. Roscommon (Kilbride Parish). I have a copy of the certificate that Fr Browne produced following a search in 2004, showing Patrick being baptised in 23rd Feb 1843 to Martin and Sara Kirwan.

Given that it is a fairly unique name for that area and time, I've been able to use the LDS indexes (including getting some microfilm shipped to my local LDS centre and scanning throug it) to build a resonably good picture of the Kirwan family at the time. There seems to have been three brothers; Martin, Robert and Peter.

Each of these boys had an eldest son called Patrick, so I'm assuming their fathers name was Patrick (is this a valid assumption?)

So based on the LDS copies of the parish records I put the family structure as:

Patrick Kirwan & unknown wife

    * Martin Kirwan & Sarah ?
          o Patrick (b. Oct 1836) – died as infant
          o Margaret (b. Jun 1839)
          o Patrick (b. Feb 1843) – the ancestor we’re following
          o Mary (b. Nov 1845)
          o Catherine (b. Aug 1848)
    * Robert Kirwan and Mary McDermott
          o Patrick (b. Feb 1843)
          o Catherine (b. May 1844)
          o Martin (b. Nov 1846)
    * Peter and Bridget Ryan
          o Patrick (b. Feb 1846)

However, all I can find are baptism records. I can find no birth records, marriage records, or death records that relate to the various individuals. For example, Martin and Sara baptised a boy Patrick in Oct 1836 and then another (my ancestor) in Feb 1843. Our assumption is that the first Patrick died early. But I can't find any records of the death.

Can anyone help with information on the births, deaths and marriages of the three brothers; Martin, Robert and Peter?

Thanks for any assistance.

[bullet]

I also am from a Kirwan family and am having no luck also.  My John Kirwan, born to Thomas Kirwan and an unknown mother in Ireland in 1827.  He moved to Scotland for whatever reason and became a soldier, then he was killed  in India, - that took me a long time to find out!    Have you tried looking in Scotland?  Or any military records, - maybe your boys joined up in the army also.

[Elwyn Soutter]

You say that you can't find any birth records for these baptisms in the 1840s, nor for the first Patrick's death. You won't find any as statutory registration of births and deaths only started in Ireland in 1864. Likewise for RC marriages which also started then (non RC marriages were recorded from 1845).

[mh_deadwoods]

Thanks Elwyn.

Researching families in Ireland is certainly challenging. So does that just leave visiting the church itself (the other end of the world for me) and pouring through their records for other bit of info (like church notices)? I do have John's Roscommon CD on order; I'm hoping there will be something in there.

[Elwyn Soutter]

Researching the era you are looking at can be difficult. There are no surviving census records for Roscommon prior to 1901 and it can be a struggle. Graveyards are certainly one possible source of further information. I see that the RC parish records for Kilbride only start in 1835 (which is fairly standard) and so clearly you won’t get much further back with them.

I had a look in Griffiths Valuation. There are 16 Kirwan entries for Roscommon but none for Kilbride parsish. www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

The 1901 census also has 16 Kirwan entries for Roscommon. www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/?then If you know the townland your ancestors came from, you might just pick up descendants who remained in Roscommon through this.

You could try the Tithe Applotment records to see if your ancestors appear there (they date to around 1831). I have not done research in the Republic of Ireland but assume they will be in the National Library in Dublin.

If you think your family might have left wills, then you could search for them. I am not quite sure where they are stored but I’d try the NLA. www.nli.ie/

The era you are looking at was one of the worst periods of the famine and so it would not be surprising if some or all of the family chose to emigrate at that time. There are no passenger records for migrations to Great Britain but you might find passenger records if any of the others went to the USA, and obviously Australia or NZ. If you think they may have gone to GB, then the simplest way to pick them up is probably through the censuses (which start in 1841). Many Irish people migrated to Scotland which had separate censuses (on the same dates as the England & Wales ones) so you need to check them separately. Place of birth on the GB censuses is usually just given as Ireland but you may be able to identify the families through names and ages.


Elwyn