Aberdeenshire Surnames: Bain & Cheyne

[RedMystic]

Hi all. I'm new to this discussion site, but it looks fascinating.

I'm looking for information on Bains and Cheynes. As far as I can tell, they originated in Aberdeenshire.

I have a Frederick Charles Malcom Bain, born about 1888 in Peterculter or Kingswell. His parents were Robert Bain (1858-1913) & Ann Henderson (b.1853). Frederick's grandfather was George Bain (b.1804) and Isabella (b.1823). Frederick and brothers: Robert, John, & James came to Saskatchewan, Canada. Brother Alexander perhaps went to the United States. Frederick had two other bothers, Edward (who died in infancy in Scotland) and Harry who died in Mains of Kimmundy.

Frederick married Mary Helen Cheyne (b.1886 in Peterhead- d.1967 in Saskatchewan). The marriage information I got indicates that they married in Saskatchewan, though it appears he came in spring 1909 and that she travelled later that year using the Bain surname. She was followed the next year (1910) by Helen Cheyne (1863 - 1952). In Canada, Helen was always introduced as Mary Helen's sister, but one of her daughters feels she was likely Mary Helen's mother.

Does anyone have any further information on these families, occupations, location of gravestones, etc?

[CaroleW]

Hi and welcome to Rootschat

In 1891 - Mary Helen was living with her grandfather in Tyrie

Alexander Murray 70 b Tyrie Aberdeen - farmer
Mary Hellen Cheyne 4 g/dtr b Tyrie Aberdeen
Tyrie ED 4 Page  4 Line 24

[CaroleW]

1901 for Tyrie

John Cheyne 72 b Tyrie stone dyker
Helen Cheyne 73 wife b Methlick - also shown as Helen Ironside
Helen Cheyne 37 dtr b Methlick
Mary H Cheyne 14 g/dtr b New Pitsligo
Tyrie ED 4 Page  2 Line 1

HELEN CHEYNE   Birth:  04 MAR 1863   Methlick, Aberdeen
Father  JOHN CHEYNE    Mother  HELEN IRONSIDE

[CaroleW]

I think Mary Helen was illegitimate but whether her mother was Helen - you need sight of her birth cert to get that info

It's possible her mother was Helen Cheyne but her father was ?? Murray hence the 1891 entry

Scotlands People is the website you need for her birth and any other BMD info but you will need to buy credits as it is a paysite  www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

I have done a basic check and can't find a Bain/Cheyne marriage in Scotland pre-1909

[RedMystic]

Much appreciated Carole W.

I have a portrait photo of Helen Ironside and John Cheyne. All the records show that Mary Helen was their  grand daughter, so the task now is confirming who her mother was. I will try Scotlands People as you suggest.

I've never heard anything of the Alexander Murray you found as grandfather (perhpas paternal as you've suggested) in the 1891 census. Fantastic. Would it have been plausible that Helen Cheyne married, but never changed her name? It doesn't seem likley to me, and wouldn't explain why, if Helen were her child, that she wouldn't acknowledge her as that in Canada.

TX again.

[CaroleW]

Hi

I don't think Helen would have married and still be known as Cheyne

Perhaps she wasn't her mother - just her aunt and Mary was the child of one of Helen's sisters??

This is the 1871 census - big gap in ages - I wonder if Helen was a second wife

John Cheyne 42 b Tyrie
Hellen 43 b Methlick
George   22 b Rayne
William   10 b Methlick
Ellen   8 b Methlick
Sarah  6 b Methlick
Jane   4 b Methlick
Mary Ann   3 b Savoc
New Pitsligo ED 4 Page  2 Line 25

[CaroleW]

She certainly was

JOHN CHEYNE    Spouse:  HELEN IRONSIDE    Marriage:  05 APR 1860   Methlick, Aberdeen 

[RedMystic]

I have a little of John Cheyne's marriage history.

He apparently married Ann Johnstone before 1848, but no formal record of that has been found. She had a child (George ??) and must have died before 1851 as John is listed as unmarried in that census.

John Cheyne had another son (Alexander??) with by Ann Duguid (unmarried) or  Mary Duguid (unmarried) or Margaret Duguid (unmarried).

John Cheyne then married Helen Ironside in 1860.

[RedMystic]

Hi Carole W

I sure appreciate your insight.

I should have added that the reason I'm so curious about Mary Helen (daughter or sister) and Helen (sister or mother) is that I have a bit of story detail on the Cheyne side of the family, just not when it comes to those two (which seems odd simply by its absence in the family story when other detail has been fairly forthcoming). I will continue to be curious - and will be sure to look up that Alexander Murray connection you found.

I'm sorely lacking on the Bain side. Frederick came over to Canada in 1909 as a "caregiver" for a stallion that he was delivering to someone on this side of the ocean and I have a picture of his parents, but that's about the extent of my info. I don't know if there was a connection between the Cheyne and Bain families beyond the Frederick's marriage to Mary Helen, or any other details.