Sydserff- East Lothian

[MonicaL]

Ahh, that entry comes from the Vital Records database of LDS which doesn't show on the standard database for IGI.

When your head stops hurting or for the friend you are doing this for, you might want to check on the new pilot LDS database http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start ....six pages of Sydseffs in East Lothian, including some of the entries we have been discussing.

Monica

Added: Correction - 13 pages of entries!

[carrumba]

Thanks Monica, I'll check that out later.

As far as SP is concerned.  I can find Alexander (son of Alexander and Margaret) birth but cannot find his marriage to Frances Logan.
The only Birth of an Alexander Sydserff on SP before 1787 that could realistically be the Alexander I am looking for is the Alexander Sydserff born in 1747 in Garvald to James Sydserff and Agnes Guillis.

I'll keep poking about a bit more before I highlight this one as a possible.

[hdw]

Probably the most famous Sydserf of them all was Bishop Thomas Sydserf in the 17th century -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sydserf

Harry

[hume]

Had a look in the East Lothian MI books for the name ...

Whittinghame

35 Here lyes John & Margrat WOLFES chn [children] to Alexr WOLFE & Mart. SIDESERF. John d. March 1743 aged 9 years, Margt d. April 1748 aged 17 years.

91 Here lyeth the corps of Archd SYDSERFF weaver in P--hol d. 10th April 1728 aged 72 years, wife? ---- FARMER, also of [3] of their children. William SYDSERFF erected this stone. [Ed: per IGI - Archibald SYDSERFF and Margaret FERMAR married Stenton June 1689.)

169 BUCHAN-SYDSERFF of Ruchlaw Burial Ground. (Ed: see Foster, Baronetage 1882 under BUCHAN-HEPBURN - Francis BUCHAN-SYDSERFF of Ruchlaw was 6s [sixth son?] of John BUCHAN of Letham and he changed his name when he married Matilda [sic] heiress of John SYDSERFF of Ruchlaw, their son John of Ruchlaw d. 1839 (wife Marguerite OLIVIER, of St. Anne's Alderney, 1st son of Thomas of Ruchlaw JP b. 1822 (married 1847 Marguerite Higgins MOWBRAY, of Hartwood, Midlothian (son John b. 1848 etc,); see Stenton inscriptions 51-53; Edinburgh Testaments 1514-1800 index (SRS) list 10 x testaments of SYDSERFFS of Ruchlaw (1532-1782)

Stenton

51 mural. Thomas Buchan SYDSERFF of Ruchlaw 26th January 1822 - 25th January 1905, wife Margaret Higgins MOWBRAY 9th September 1826 - 18th November 1896, 3d [third daughter?] Eleanor 12th September 1854 - 29th November 1919

52 celtic cross. John BUCHAN-SYDSERFF younger of Ruchlaw d. 23rd March 1901 aged 52 years; son Archibald Thomas d. December 1899 aged 6 months, wife Charlotte Anne d. 1st March 1947 aged 90 years, daughter Rosetta Margaret 12th May 1954 aged 59 years, daughter Norah Kathleen died 21st December 1984 aged 87 years (wife of Nugent GLOUCHER), also Marie Buchan SYDSERFF died 23rd July 1992 aged 87 years (Ed: see stained glass windows inside the church.)

53 mural. Thomas & Margaret H. Buchan SYDSERFF of Ruchlaw, youngest son Archibald Seymour, 11th May 1865 - 1st January 1879

Tranent

257 Imo [In Memory Of] Janet Marion BUCHAN SYDSERFF died 5th March 1847 aged 48 years, husband H. Francis CADELL Esq. Cockenzie 27th April 1779 - 27th April 1843, also children Charles, William, George, Marion, John, Annie. (Ed: from M'Neil (1883), Tranent, p. 6; Franks (1842), Evidence of Children in Collieries; DNB.)

Prestonpans West

69 large. John FOWLER brewer Prestonpans 9th July 1756 - 13th July 1839. Robert HISLOP born 7th June 1789 died 16th January 1872, wife Ann Buchan SYDSERFF 19th May 1801 - 31st March 187, children; Francis 26th August 1826 - 12th March 1860, Robert 25th March 1831 - 3rd July 1870, also Phemie, George, Charlie, d. infancy John Fowler HISLOP 18th October 1823 - 6th August 1894

Quite a family!

hume

[hume]

As far as SP is concerned.  I can find Alexander (son of Alexander and Margaret) birth but cannot find his marriage to Frances Logan.

It can be found under Frances LOGAN/Alexander SIDSERF, 1810, Morham.

hume

[carrumba]

Hume>  Many many thanks for all the information!  Much appreciated!  Hopefully I'll be able to tie my friends family into one of these entries eventually.

Have looked back at the info I have after a bit of a break and my sticking point is as follows:-

I have The birth entry on IGI for Alexander Sydserff, 15 Mar 1787 (Baptised 25 Mar 1787) in Whittingehame, East Lothian.  Parents are Alexander Sydserff and Margaret Dickson.  I can also find the entries for the births on the IGI of their children, namely:
Katherine (1814)
Alexander (1816)
Helen (1818)
Peter (1820)
Francis (1822)
John (1823)

The problem is I can find no marriage entry on IGI or Scotlands People.  The closes I can find is a Patrick Sydserff to a Magreat Dixson in 1727.

S T U M P E D

Got some time off work this afternoon so going to continue to poke away at the edges and bits of info to see what falls out!

<<EDIT>>
Through the IGI the only two possibilities for Alexander's (the one that married Margaret Dickson) parents would be Alexander Sidserff born 18 Jan 1747 in Garvald, East Lothian or a Garrett Alexander Sydserff born in Edinburgh 19 Sep 1746.

Given the location in East Lothian the first would be the favourite option but I am reluctant to definitely pin this Sydserff line to that entry until I can resolve Alexander Sydserff and Margaret Dickson's marriage.  Had a quick peek at English marriage entries but to no avail...

[hume]

Hi carrumba,

Like yourself, I'm finding it difficult to find any trace of Alexander and Margaret's marriage. It's not uncommon though not to find these records; sometimes never recorded in the first place or lost over the years. I have however found a full [hopefully ] list of children for them;

1. Catharine Sydserf, bapt. 12th September 1779 Garvald (parents Alexander Sydserff and Margaret Dickson)
2. James Sydeserff, bapt. 10th December 1780 (born 23rd November) Yester (parents Alexander Sydeserff and Margaret Dickson, residence Sheriffside)
3. Agnes Sydney [sic], bapt. 24th December 1782 (born 14th December) Whittingham (parents Alexander Sydney [sic] and Margaret Dickson)
4. John Sydserff, bapt. 27th March 1785 (born 12th March) Whittingham (parents John [sic] Sydserff and Margaret Dickson)
5. Alexander Sydserff, bapt. 25th March 1787 (born 15th March) Whittingham (parents Alexander Sydserff and Margaret Dickson)

From the names used for their children, I think this is a possibility for Margaret's birth;

Margaret Dickson, bapt. 21st April 1751 Garvald (parents John Dickson and Katherin [sic] Henderson, residence, Walden; witnesses William Sanderson & Archibald Dickson) - a twin with Shusan [sic], who was born first.

Can you give us details of the birth you found for Alexander? Naming would suggest parents could or should be James and Agnes.

hume

[carrumba]

Hmmm... well... can i ask why you would say the parents names should/could be James or Agnes?  Why not Catherine?  I am intrigued to learn more!

I am also quite impressed as the possible entry I had for Alexander's birth is as follows:-

Garvald, East Lothian
Alexander Sydserff born 18 Jan 1747
Parents:  James Sydserff & Agnes Guillis  (Gillies?)

The East Lothian connection seems to be right.  Let me know what you think!  On IGI by the way.

[hume]

Hi carrumba,

My guess was from using Scottish naming patterns. They are (generally) as follows;

1st son named after father's father (James)
2nd son named after mother's father (John)
3rd son named after father (Alexander)
1st daughter named after mother's mother (Catharine)
2nd daughter named after father's mother (Agnes)
3rd daughter named after mother (? would have been Margaret)
-- above from ScotlandsPeople

While not always rigidly stuck to, it can be a great clue for giving the names of maternal and paternal grandparents, etc.

I didn't see that entry on the IGI, but I now see it's only included in the newest section of the site. That does reaffirm my thoughts that I'm missing entries by using the "old ways". It does look a likely match for Alexander given the above.

http://www.freereg.org.uk/ is very good for looking at East Lothian OPRs. Not the original images, I'm afraid, but transcriptions. The 1747 entry is there (although transcribed as Lydserff). It gives baptism date of 10th Janaury 1747? with parents James Lydserff and Agnes Guillis, of Baro. Witnesses were William and John Kemp, also of Baro.

Now the interesting thing will be to find a marriage between James and Agnes!

hume

PS. Baro is likely the parish of Bara which united with Garvald in 1702.