erm DAVIES (again) I'm so sorry!

[Welsh Girl]

I think I am losing the plot .... thought I'd clawed it all back, then getting myself in a pickle - again !!

OK .... I have the DC for Florence Nellie Davies.  On there, the Informant (her Son) has put her Maiden name as JENKINS.

I have a MC for Florence Nellie DAVIES to WILLIAM DAVIES, and her Father is shown as John Peter Davies (deceased) at the time of marriage in 1915.

I thought that one of them had to be wrong .. she had 3 children (that I knew of at the time) but I couldn't find ANY of them where the MMN was JENKINS .... I found 3 possibilities where the MMN was DAVIES though.  Today, I find out they also had a Daughter, Violet May Davies who died in 1918 aged 2 ..... I have found TWO possible births for a Violet May Davies, in Merthyr Tydfil in 1916, and BOTH of the entries show the MMN as DAVIES.

To confuse things even more .. I think I have figured out where the JENKINS comes into it - but not how exactly .....

On Florence's DC it gives her birth as 13 September 1891 in Neath.  I have found her on the 1901 census, living in Troed y Rhiw, with Thomas JENKINS and his family - she is shown as a VISITOR though!!  Her YOB is shown as 1895, but this isn't too far out.  There is also a ROSE JENKINS shown as the Daughter in Law ... is this her Mother??  She is shown as a Widow!!

On the 1911 census, I have her living with the same family, shown this time as his NIECE, and this time her YOB is shown as 1896 (she's getting younger).  This is also the address shown on her MC - for both her and William.

I'm confused with the Jenkins and Davies links now ... I can only assume the Father on the MC is correct .....

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water !!!!!!

[Welsh Girl]

was Thomas's SISTER a JENKINS that married Peter John Davies ??

.. just thinking out loud 

[osprey]

Rose in enumerated as married in 1901, but she is the same age as Thomas & Margaret's daughter called Rose.....

Do you have Florence's birth cert?
Florence Nellie Davies dec qtr 1894 Neath vol 11a pg 816

I wouldn't put too much trust in the age given by someone registering a death.  My mother cut a few years off her mother's age when she registered her death.

 

[Welsh Girl]

Thank you .. on all the records she is shown as being born in Neath - so I think we are safe on that one ... it's only the date of birth on her DC (September) that puts the Dec qtr out for the birth in Neath ..... although, he though his Mothers MN was Jenkins, so that part isn't right ...

This is now driving me INSANE !!  I have found 2 marriages between a JENKINS and a DAVIES ... Thomas Jenkins and Margaret Davies (Pontypridd 1865) and Neath 1865 ....
Neither fit really, as Thomas is on the 1871 census as single ... looking at their first child, I'd put a marriage about 1873 ...

I've now got it in my head that the "Niece" element must be on the Margaret side (hence looking and hoping she was a Davies) so that Peter John could be her Brother .....  struggeling to find him on the previous census .. although there was one with a Wife called Gwenllion - there are a zillion death possibilities for her !!!

I also now think I have foudn the death entries for the Sons.. so that's another wall .. UGH!

[osprey]

do you have a birth cert for one of the Jenkins children to get Margaret's maiden name?

Isabella Jenkins june qtr 1889 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 570

Possible marriage

Thomas Jenkins sept qtr 1871 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 523 with Margaret Nash on the same page

Given that the oldest child is 8 on the 1881 census, so the 1874 marriages  look to be rather late. Also, there's a John Nash boarding with the family in 1891.

Who are the witnesses to Florence's marriage?
 

[ambers]

I found the same as osprey...only it took me twice as long

John D Nash is with the family in 1891, and I found the same marriage in 1871 for Margaret Nash to Thomas Jenkins...first child born 1872/3.

I wonder why Florence was with this Jenkins family so long and married from their house, her son noted her as nee Jenkins on her death cert. Perhaps both her parents died and they took her on as often happened in those days, but I haven't found a man john Peter Davies marrying a Jenkins woman.

I suspect that she knew her fathers name, but did they  marry, did her mother die in childbirth and he went on to marry someone else

Ambers

[osprey]

my thoughts are going along similar lines, Ambers. It could well be an informal adoption. I've seen niece used as meaning any female of a younger generation, blood relative or no.

As she appears to have grown up in the Jenkins household, she may have used that surname so that's what she gave when asked for her maiden name. I'd be more convinced by her age as given on the census and when she married than that given by her son when she died. Don't think it's very likely that a child of 11 would get enumerated as 6, and her age 10 years later is similar.

 

[Welsh Girl]

Hiya ... I've applied for Isabella's BC, and that'll give me the MMN.

When Florence got married, she gave her MN as Davies, and also her father's name as John Peter Davies.  I think she knew she wasn't a Jenkins, but was just raised as one.  her father is showing as deceased in 1915 when she married (but I don't know when ... I'd say between 1891-1915 

The witnesses to florence andf William's marriage are Milly rees and ?? Rees

I think the Son got confused, and put Jenkins down as, like you say, this could have been an informal adoption - especially if they were related .. the 1911 census is hit and miss, when they are right - they are very right, but they DO get things OH SO WRONG!  It is clear on the original, that she's a Nices, and this was filled out by Thomas Jenkins himself - but of course she could be blood-related to Margaret OR Thomas ... I think I've exhausted the Thomas links ....

I'm going to call the RO today to get the BC for the Florence in Neath.  The dates on the 1901 and 1911 are closer to the 1894 birth year, rather than 1891 on her DC. 

fingers crossed

[osprey]

let us know when you get any more info.