Author Topic: Francis  (Read 21750 times)

Offline angelahutch

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Francis
« on: Wednesday 09 February 11 10:43 GMT (UK) »
I am looking for any information regarding a Henry Francis born 1804 Wexford, Ireland.

He came over to England with his sons, but no wife he is classed as a widower
sons where, Charles, Thomas, Solomon, Isaac and Henry all born in Queens County, Ireland.

Any information regarding Henry snr would be much appreciated.


Offline shanew147

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Re: Francis
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 09 February 11 13:44 GMT (UK) »
Since Henry's birth is well before the start of Full Civil records in Ireland (1864), so you would need to check what parish records might be  available. To do this you would need to know the family religion and where in Co. Wexford his family lived - i.e. parish or townland.

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Offline Jutta1709

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Re: Francis
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 06 August 11 16:44 BST (UK) »
Hi Angela

Am also researching the Francis line from Henry  (though for me he is a very recent find!!).

Just found out about the Tinker connections which I think is answering a few questions for me.  Am also in touch with one or two others researching this line.

Kind regards

Jutta


Offline angelahutch

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Re: Francis
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 06 August 11 16:53 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Thomas Francis born 1780

Children:
Thomas Francis 1797 married Rosanne Scott (stayed in Ireland)
Henry Francis 1804 wife died then he came to England with sons.
Jane Francis born 1808 married Isaac Stewart came to England
Alice Francis born 1811 married Henry Smith. Came to England



Offline Jutta1709

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Re: Francis
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 06 August 11 17:24 BST (UK) »
Hi Angela

Up until last week - I had virtually nothing.  Was contacted by Jeff Johnson who lead me to Denise.  I am waiting for a reply from a Steven Francis (?) who also has a tree on Ancestry.  Have seen a Robert on different boards but not made contact.

Denise has been great with the info she has provided, up till that point I got as far as the marriage between Charles Francis and Margaret Ann Smith, in Sunderland in 1896.  They had two sons, Charles and James William.  I have a sneaking suspicion there was a third called Thomas and think his name changed to Leake after Margaret's marraige to Thomas Leake  (he was 13 years old on the 1911 census in Edinburgh). 

Charles Francis died in 1918  as a war pensioner at the age of 24 - he married Margaret McIntyre in 1916.  James William  (Willy) was my grandfather and died in 1960 at the age of 65.  He married yet another Margaret and they went on to have Margaret, James, Eileen, Catherine, Charles, Thomas and John.  Thomas is my dad.

With such an abundance of James', Charles' and Thomas', then there is the Isaacs, Henry's and Solomon's, it is so easy to get muddled.  Doesn't help when there is a 10 year difference between records!!

I look forward to hearing from you again

Jutta

Offline Rg3n30l0gy

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Re: Francis
« Reply #5 on: Friday 26 August 11 15:29 BST (UK) »
Hi angelahutch,

You wrote, "Thomas Francis 1797 married Rosanne Scott (stayed in Ireland).  That isn't all together correct.  First, I'd like to clear up Miss Scott's first name.  It was Rosanna not Rosanne.  At least that is the way it is spelled on her tombstone.  One of her granddaughters was named after her (my great grandmother).  She also spelled her name as Rosanna.

Thomas Francis was born in Kilmuckridge, Wexford, Ireland.  He worked as a farmer and died during the Irish Potato Famine. 

After her husband Thomas died, the family seriously considered moving to the new world.  Records show that two voyages were made.  The first was made by two of her sons, John and George.  They sailed from Wexford, Ireland on August 15, 1844.  George was about 17 while John's age is still unknown.  On September 17, 1844, the brothers finally arrived in Alton, Illinois.

Sometime between September 1844 and April 1845, the brothers made the trip back to Ireland to bring the rest of the family to America.

On April 6, 1845, Rosanna along with her six children; John, Charles, George, William, Elizabeth and Margaret, set sail on "the Old Messenger" for the new world.  It took six weeks for their sailing ship to reach Quebec, Canada.  They still had to travel by way of lakes, river and canal to reach Alton on June 20, 1845.  From Alton it was a short team ride to Gillespie, Illinois.  In the 1840s the family would have found the land around Gillespie like untilled prairie land.

About a year later, Rosanna (Scott) Francis died.  She is buried in the Gillespie City Cemetery in Gillespie, Illinois.

According to Charles Francis, Rosanna's son, the Irish and Scottish history of his family goes something like this:

"He (Charles Francis) was born in County Wexford on the 2d of February, 1823 and come of Scotch-Irish ancestry of the Protestant faith. His family was prominently connected with the religious troubles of that country. His father, Thomas Francis and his grandfather, Charles Francis, were both natives of County Wexford. The latter lived on a farm which had been purchased by his father, a Scotch emigrant, who had fled into Ireland at the time of the religious persecution when under the reign of Queen Anne, the Protestants were so terribly treated. Thomas Francis also succeeded to the old homestead and there spent the remainder of his life, dying at middle age. He married Miss Rosanna Scott who was also born and reared in County Wexford, where her parents, George and Rosanna Scott, passed their entire lives. Their ancestry had also sought refuge in Ireland from persecution for their opposition to the Catholics. Their places were burned, their homes pilfered. After the death of Thomas Francis, his widow with her four sons and two daughters, took passage on the sailing vessel, the "Old Messenger," and after six weeks landed at Quebec, Canada, continuing their journey by lakes, canal and river to Alton and on by team until they arrived in Gillespie. About a year later the mother died. She was a high-minded, noble woman, who with a loving fidelity cared for her children."

You wrote that, "Thomas Francis born 1780"... "Children: Thomas Francis 1797 married Rosanne Scott (stayed in Ireland)."  Did you see a will or some estate papers that established the relationship between that Thomas Francis who was born in 1780, or any other reliable document that established the father to son relationship? Please advise.  If there are such papers, I would like to obtain a copy of them.  Otherwise, I'd have to take Charles Francis' word since he would have personal knowledge of his grandfather.



Offline angelahutch

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Re: Francis
« Reply #6 on: Friday 26 August 11 16:05 BST (UK) »
Hi
Well now you have got me quite confused, you see Henry Francis born 1804 is from my line his son Isaac Francis was my great grandfather, and apparently they came over to England about 1851 but could of been earlier as I think they came over about 1841 to Scotland as sister Alice is married their
Henry had sisters Jane Francis and Alice Francis. 
According to Henry Francis marriage to Ann Crawford in 1862 he states Thomas as his father, but then again he could of been Charles Thomas Francis and like some just used the middle name, it's just that someone made the connection and I thought it was correct.

I don't really know but I am in touch with someone researching the Thomas and Rosanna line, will alter my tree and put the record straight for Rosanna

She sent me a tree well sort of a one which her mother had done it does state Charles Francis born 2 Feb 1823 Co. Wexford, Ireland.  On hers  states that he married a  Nancy Pauline don't know it's the way she's put it born 16 May 1820 Cleveland,Cuyahaga Ohio again don't know if this is correct
But does have Rosanna Elizabeth Francis married to a  Emmett Thomas Rice  then they have a child called Frances Elizabeth Rice who marries Leon Alfred Hubbard then next comes they have a daughter called Leona M. Hubbard who marries a Everett C. Fisher then I think they have a daughter called Donna Lynn

The tree she sent to me goes all over the place back over from Donna and her parents, and their parents etc. even got them back to where they are killed by Indians etc, probably crossing the praire.

I am in the middle of sending for some certificates so will send for Henry Francis born 1804 died 1864 marriage cert for 1862 to see who he states as father that will then answer both of our questions.

Offline Rg3n30l0gy

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Re: Francis
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 30 August 11 21:39 BST (UK) »
Angelahutch,

Leona M. Hubbard was my mother's first cousin.  Nancy Pauline's full name was Nancy Pauline Temple.  Born May 16, 1820 in Cleveland, , Ohio.  She died June 24, 1887, in Gillespie, Macoupin, Illinois.  She is buried in the Gillespie City Cemetery.

Rosanna Elizabeth Francis and Emmett Thomas Rice did have a child named Francis Elizabeth Rice.   Rosanna Elizabeth Francis and Emmett Thomas Rice had six children in all including, in order of birth; Pauline Christiann Rice b. December 10, 1880, Stewart Parnell Rice b. November 18, 1882, Mary Ethel Rice b. July 18, 1885, May Clare Rice b. November 03, 1890, Francis Elizabeth Rice b. September 01, 1893, Charles Emmett Hugh Rice b. July 05, 1898.

Charles Francis and Nancy Pauline Temple had 3 children not one.  Besides Rosanna Elizabeth Francis, they had a son named Richard D. Francis b. November 27, 1858, and one child I never found the name of.

Do you live in Great Britain?

I've never known a relative that actually lived outside U.S.




Offline angelahutch

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Re: Francis
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 31 August 11 10:33 BST (UK) »
Hi,
Well I originally came from the North of England but now live in Spain, but my research has taken me from Ireland to all over England, America, Australia, Canada, New Zealand.

It is my father's side that is the Francis surname. 
Well I have been asking various members and Henry Francis born 1804 his father was called Thomas Francis and Henry was born in Wexford, Ireland.  Now according to Henry's marriage cert his father was a blacksmith, but I have heard from another that they where originally farmers who did blacksmith work on their animals as did most Irish people.

So maybe your Thomas father is Charles and Charles had a brother called Thomas but we can go on with theory's unless we can actually find a marriage for your Thomas Francis and Rosanna to see who the father was then it's all guess work or theory.  Maybe Charles was the name but maybe it could be Charles Thomas.

The names Charles, Henry, Thomas, Solomon, and Isaac appear profoundly down the different branches of the tree.

All I do know is there is a connection to Scotland as Henry's sister Alice married a Henry Smith Gretna Green, and Jane Francis married a Isaac Stewart from Scotland, and they where married in Scotland.

So your theory that there was links to Scotland seem to confirm as Henry Smith husband of Alice Francis was born in Ireland and Isaac Stewart husband of Jane Francis was born in Dundee in Scotland, but Isaac Stewart's father William came from Ireland

When they came over from Ireland they would of had no money to speak of therefore they where reduced to hawking, tin making etc.  Then they became known here as Irish Travelers.  Henry, Jane and Alice where travelers and so where their offspring.

The Smith/Stewart/Lee/Boswell/Francis families all intermarried between each other.  You may of heard of the Boswell's as famous Gypsy's therefore it came to the fact that our family of Francis married into the Gypsy/Irish Traveler community in Easington Lane, Co. Durham.

Henry Francis had a son called Henry who had a son called Henry who had a son called Isaac.  Now Isaac Francis married Rose Alice Lee (fortune teller) known in the north of england as Gypsy Rose Lee.

I have a copy of them in their caravan although it is black and white.

Jane Francis who married Isaac Stewart traveled greatly around England but always had a base in Co. Durham, as did Alice and Henry.