Watkin Williams-Wynn

[rach87]

Ok so I am tearing my hair out slightly over a certain mystery in my family tree, here is the following. My dad heard a family story (as they come) that we where related to the historically famous Watkin Williams-Wynn from his father. Now this could possibly have been due to the fact that my dad's fathers mother was illegitimate this is the only lead I have to go by so far. I am aware of the famous Williams-Wynn family and I am aware that one of that exact name lived in around the 18th cent (too early) and another descendant of the same name and family was still alive up to 1885 (my illegitimate  great grandmother was born in 1871). I am also aware that they appear to have lived more Denbighshire way than Anglesey where my illegitimate great grandmother and her family lived at this time, although I also know that the Wynn-Williams family where descendants from Anglesey I am not sure of their property on the Island in the late 19th century when she was born. Any experts on this family that could help me? Some of my dads fathers family also came from Denbigshire so I could be barking up the wrong side, however it seems strange because my dad's sister once said that her illegitimate grandmothers father was someone influential and his identity was quickly swept under the carpet?!

 many thanks in advance.

Rach

[Capt America]

Hi Rachel,

Bit of a tangent but I am sure Watkin Williams-Wynn is the illegitimate father of my great-grandfather, George Rogers. His mother was Mary who worked for the family of the estate at Llangedwyn. After George was born in 1870 he is listed as the child of Thomas and Ann Rogers (nee Vaughn) who were Mary's parents and also worked on the estate. Curiously Mary disappears from the estate in the 1881 census and Thomas and Ann have moved from a relative hovel of a cottage to the gatehouse of the estate with George who is now nearly 10 and is listed as their grandson. By the 1891 census George has disappeared from the estate as well. He became a railway signalman and worked on the Wirral until his death in 1932 from Tuberculosis. Ann died at Llangedwyn in 1889 aged 66. Thomas died at Llangedwyn in 1895 aged 85. Both are buried together in the churchyard of Llangedwyn with a splendid headstone which I presume was paid for by the Williams-Wynn family. Thomas and Ann also had their own pew in the church.

I was curious about your potential link to the estate through your family and wondered if it was just a theory or you had some other evidence? I would love to help out if I could, let me know any other details or ask me for any other information you may want.

I have built my theory up over quite some time and I was going to ask the current Baronet if they would participate in a DNA test with myself but I haven't got the courage up yet and I'm not sure what it will prove! Thomas and Ann were Welsh speakers as was my great-grandfather and his eldest daughter and eldest son, Thomas Maldwyn Rogers, who was my grand-father. Thomas Maldwyn regularly visited relatives in the Wrexham and Johnstown areas in the 1940's and 1950's and took my dad (born 1936) with him. My dad remembers they used to go for goslings which were brought home to be fattened up and sold at Christmas time.

Best wishes, Steve Rogers.

[mrsruz]

We have a family story that Phoebe Williams Wynne an heiress, married William Sewell in around 1820 in Old Swinford, Worcestershire.
Seems highly unlikely as he was a coal merchant & she was supposed to be daughter of a Sir Watkin Williams Wynne, but who knows?
Never been able to prove anything one way or the other, although many have tried.

[Capt America]

Hi Mrsruz,

If Watkins Williams-Wynn was your ancestor and Rachel's ancestor then we would all have a common DNA thread? Wouldn't need to ask the Baronet then (he might be miffed if he had to pass the title over!!) as Watkins Williams-Wynn the 6th Baronet (1820-1885) didn't have a legitimate heir and passed the title to his nephew.

It's all very fascinating, thanks for your input.

[DCB]

Some useful biographies:-

http://wbo.llgc.org.uk/en/s-WYNN-WYN-1600.html

http://www.archiveswales.org.uk/anw/get_collection.php?coll_id=77964&inst_id=1&term=Mathafarn%20Estate%20(Wales)

[rach87]

Thank you for your replies - very interesting! I was looking at Watkin Williams-Wynn born in 1820 as my possible connection. He and my Father look the image of each other - very spooky! Although I still can not find a connection as of yet. Many Thanks Rachel Williams

[Rach_stark]

Hello all, just a quick note to say I am the OP rach87. Unfortunately I am unable to use that account as I lost access to the email address for the account some time ago, so here I am again.

Still no further on with this. Lots of research later and some interesting connections with people who are on a similar research journey. Would be great to catch up with you all - Capt America any luck?

Take care

[azraelhawke]

Hi,
I too am tracing a mysterious family rumour of this ilk. I have discovered one of my ancestors was a housemaid at Wynnstay, the seat of Sir Watkin Williams-Wynn, 6th Baronet in 1861.
I am now counting four people researching similar rumours about Williams-Wynn, so perhaps he was s prolific womaniser.
I’m up for DNA link on Ancestry.com.
Regards,
Simon

[rikedwards]

Hello!  I’m also looking for (so far) elusive evidence of a family connection to the Williams-Wynn family.  If you’re interested in the story so far, it’s here:
http://rikramblings.com/2022/02/14/le-gros-commandant-whof-whof-whof/
and here:
http://rikramblings.com/2022/05/24/le-gros-commandant-whof-whof-whof-part-2-the-large-wynnstay-collider/
I’m on Ancestry, and am also happy to compare DNA notes looking for a connection.
Good luck all in your researches!
Rik Edwards