Royal Marine Light Infantry Pensioners - 1879 to 1895

[worth1946]

Hi ! I'm a new Poster from Australia.  I have researched the Catalogue of the TNA without success to find the records for Marines Ratings in the period of 1879 to 1895.  My search is for my GG Grandfather, born Birmingham 1828 to 1829.  I pick up his life from  Dec 1875: marriage in Portsea Island, Hampshire to my GG Grandmother (2nd for both widows). Occ: Pensioner
June 1879: Grandfather born Ladywood, Birmingham. Occ: Chelsea Outpens/r
1881 Census, Birmingham, with family: Occ: Pensioner
1891 Census: Prince's Rock, St Andrews, Plymouth: Occ: Naval Pensioner
1894: Death at 34 Whimple St, Plymouth Occ: Marine Pensioner
1909: Son's marriage in Plymouth. Occ: Soldier
I have researched Navy/Marines, and see that Birmingham had a recruitment office for Navy Service. [Google pbenyon.plus]. I am thinking GGG sought a job in Naval Reserves/Coastguard/ ?? and moved to Plymouth, perhaps to get 20 years continuous service. His name? don't ask! JOHN SMITH nee JOHN HENRY WESTON- maybe - or is it Joseph or James- cos I can't find his baptism in familysearch, being pre-1837 anyway!  In hope someone can  comment on his shift from Army to Marine.

[joboy]

Peculiarly the Fleet Air Arm hold considerable Royal Marine Service documents see;
http://www.fleetairarm.com/en-GB/research.aspx
I was able to secure a Royal Marine ancestors details and service records via this means he enlisted May 1895 ........... give it a go ....... you never know.
joboy

[worth1946]

Thanks Joboy.  My problem is having so little information.  I only know that my "JOHN SMITH" - gggrandfather - changed from a Chelsea Pensioner in 1879, to a Naval Pensioner by 1891 Census. 

I was interested in the HOW of this - did he re-enlist in , say, the Coastguards, to extend his Pension into long service?

Mind you, he would have been 61 years old by 1891 in Plymouth - a bit long in the tooth?
Regards

[gortonboy]

were any of his children born abroad? 

[worth1946]

No, he had one child who lived, my grandfather, born in 1879 in Birmingham.

My grandfather was in the RN himself, so, if his marriage certificate in 1909 hadn't recorded JOHN SMITH, his father, as a "soldier", I might have thought that the record on JOHN SMITH's 1881 UK Census and 1875 Marriage Certificate as a "pensioner", could have allowed him to be "Navy".  The 1891 UK Census and probable death in 1894 both list him as a NAVAL PENSIONER. 

Only the "Chelsea Pensioner" in 1879 Birth Certifcate", and the "soldier" of 1909 Marriage Certificate  makes ARMY most probable in his first period of engagement. This is why I'm supposing a switch from ARMY to NAVY -/Coastguard, especially moving from Birmingham (1881) to Plymouth by (1891).

And yes, I've trawled through findmy past WO97s without meaningful results.  See my website smith-weston.com!

[gortonboy]

just had a look myself,,,1 that looked a possible was the

Name:John SMITH
Year of birth:1829
Place of birth:Aston, Birmingham, Warwickshire
Regiment:12th Foot

but you hve probably seen this one,,,,,and even that one hasnt anything to really prove he is yours,,,unless you knew he was buttonmaker b4 he joined up 

[worth1946]

Yeah, he is an interesting one.  A  JOHN SMITH in the 12th foot was in 1861 UK Census at Plymouth Citadel as J. Smith AND  in the Eureka Stockade battle in Australia in 1854.  Sent home 'for a civil offence'.

That JOHN SMITH is also, in 1861 Census, in the same area of Plymouth from my John's future second wife!

I do know my JOHN (Henry) SMITH was a BRASS FOUNDER in 1876 when his first son was born in Birmingham; this 'matches' his own father's  occupation (on 1875 Marriage Certificate) of Locksmith.  However, since he and his brother were 'thrown out' of home in their ??late teens for playing around, he may have grabbed any occupation he could get to put food on the table, before he joined the British Army.

The only SMITH Brass Founder I have found of interest in WO97 records is a HENRY SMITH , born 1829 in Aston.  The other brass founder, Joseph Smith,died in 1904.

All speculation: I just purchased and trawled through a BSMGH CD on 14 churches of Birmingham trying to find a likely WESTON family.  No joy.  I can see me ordering countless LDS records from Utah!

[worth1946]

An add-on from the Poster:  Tip for Family History Researchers

I have just discovered FREE digital downloads on the National Archives UK Website Catalogue for ratings of the Royal Marines.  You need to scroll through the pages, as they are phonetically grouped eg STA--- and SPRA--- might be together, WES---- and WETH----. 
Choose your preferred ADM Series References from this 'Your Archives' site, then revert to the TNA to search for the digital images. Name, sometimes an alias, Ship served, year of birth, place of entry - many facts are there.
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Records_of_the_Non-Commissioned_Ranks_of_the_Royal_Marines
You can only order three at a time. Good hunting!