Mariners' records at the National Archives (Kew)

[Roobarb]

Has anyone been to Kew to check out a specific Mariner's records? I'm going next month and wondered if anyone could tell me how easy/hard it was to find what they were looking for and how time consuming. Also, I'd be grateful for any tips that would make my search easier!

I've already been told that I can only order a few items at a time and may have a wait for them. I've been reading up about crew lists and agreements but am still unsure about how successful I'm likely to be in my search.

[Ringoroses]

Have you looked online to make sure they have the crew lists and agreements you're looking for?   http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-subject/merchant-ships.htm?WT.lp=rg-5766
 If so, you can order up to 6 of the documents you want to look at online, so they'll be waiting for you when you get there - you can only order 3 documents at a time once you're there, and it can be up to 45 minutes between lots. Very frustrating.

The NA only have a small sample of crew agreements however, most are held here
http://www.mun.ca/mha/

But some are held in local archives, such as Southampton and Liverpool. So make sure they have what you want before you have a wasted journey.

Regards

Ann

[seaweed]

I assume you have been to TNA before and that you are in possesion of a current readers ticket.
If you could be a little more specific about what kind of information you are looking for. Time scale, name of Mariner, name of ship, official number of ship would help give you a sensible answer.

[Roobarb]

I've never been to TNA and don't have a reader's ticket. I thought you could only order the documents online if you already have a reader's ticket?

Since very shortly after the beginning of my family history research I've been looking for more information on my 3 x gt grandfather. His name was JAMES BELL, the only info I have about him is from the 1841 census when he lived in Topsham, Devon with his wife and family. The census indicated that he was born in Devon about 1800 and that he was a Mariner. He wasn't on the 1851 census, his wife was listed as married but in 1861 she was a widow. He must therefore have died between 1851 and 1861. I picked up some information from someone else's research (trustworthy I think) that he was a deep sea fisherman off Newfoundland. A Rootschatter has previously checked the Newfoundland records for me but was unable to find anything (I think it may actually have been you Seaweed!).

More recently I was in contact with a gentleman through a Mariners mailing list, he asked if I'd checked the deaths at sea. I did so and found a James Bell who died in 1859. The gentleman found me some details of the ship and advised me to visit TNA to further my research. He even told me the number of the box for the ship in question. I know it's not necessarily my James but he thought it was a good starting point. Other than that I don't have a clue what ship he was on.

Please don't tell me my journey will be a waste of time! I've already booked my train tickets and hotel after picking Rootschatters brains about the journey to Kew and where to stay! 

[Ringoroses]

" I thought you could only order the documents online if you already have a reader's ticket?"

You're absolutely right, my apologies.


Make sure you take what you need with you.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/visit/readers-ticket.htm

The gentleman found me some details of the ship and advised me to visit TNA to further my research. He even told me the number of the box for the ship in question

.

So what was the name of the ship? Perhaps something about his death appears in the newspapers of the day.

Regards
Ann

[nanny jan]

Roobarb,

I've just got a Reader's Ticket;  once you've left items in a locker go straight up to the second floor to start the registration process.  It was very busy when I was there last week but there are plenty of terminals to order your documents.

There's usually a wait of around 40 minutes so plan what you can do (coffee/shop/museum/more research) while you wait.

Good luck!


Nanny Jan

[seaweed]

I can only find one James Bell lost at sea between 1858 and 1865.
He died from Yellow Fever in 1859 probably 26/Nov. Two other crew members died around the same date from the same disease.
The vessel was SHANNON. POR London UK. Master George Abbott? Voyage frm West Indies, terminated in Southampton 1/12/1859. Without an extensive search,  all I know of SHANNON is she was 2187 tons, so quite a large ship for her day.
SHANNON had the official number 27784. She has crew agreements for 1859 at Kew.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=5002540&CATLN=6&Highlight=%2C27784&accessmethod=0
James Bell is a fairly common name and I don't know if this is your man but I think you do need to check it out.
You also need to look in  the earliest systematic records recording the deaths of merchant seamen are those related to the effects they left. Registers of wages and effects of deceased seamen (BT 153) cover 1852-1881 and 1888-1889. Records for April 1881-May 1888 do not seem to have survived. Indexes to these are to be found in the index to seamen's names (BT 154) and the index to ship's names (BT 155).
That should more than fill your day.

[Roobarb]

Thank you Ann, Nanny Jan, seaweed.

That's the one seaweed, the Shannon. 

The man I corresponded with provided this information:

Reg. London 1859
Steam
Reg. tons 2187 net, 3609 gross
Crew lists: 1863-9, 1864-10, 1866-12, 1867-8, 1868-4, 1869-8, 1870-10, 1871-8
Owner: Royal Mail Company
Master: George Abbott, Southampton (died at sea 18 Aug. 1864) 1864 Thos. W. Savage, Lieut R.N.R. (also 1866), Ernest West, T.A. Bevis, Frederick Woolley (also 1866); 1867 Robert Woolward, Southampton; J.H. Jellicoe, Southampton; 1868 John M. Gillies, J.H. Jellicoe; 1869 Jellicoe, Henry Box; 1870 Box, then Frederick Reeks; 1871 Reeks
Voyages: W. Indies Mail service

I thought it was odd that James should be aboard a ship that sailed to the West Indies after deep sea fishing off Newfoundland but he said it was quite possible as James would be around 60 at the time and may have taken any work he could get. He also said that Southampton claimed not only ships that were built or registered there but also those which sailed regularly from there. Also that the documents at Southampton only go back to 1863 for this ship and that perhaps the earlier ones are unindexed at Kew. He then went on to say that he had discovered  "Crew list for 27784 (Shannon) for 1859, in box BT 98/6167". Oops, just realised that's the one you directed me to seaweed, thank you!

Thank you for the additional references seaweed, it would be very interesting to find something there. I assume it was common practice to bury the deceased at sea if they died on a voyage?

Does TNA have copies of old newspapers? If so, would it be likely to have any reports of the voyage and deaths in the Southampton newspapers?

I do so hope I can find some evidence of my James, it's been a long and fruitless search so far! 

[seaweed]

As far as I am aware TNA do not have a newspaper archive.
I think most of us have on line access to newspaper archives via the local library. I suggest you ask to see if your local authority subscribes.
I checked the Hampshire Advertiser and Sailsbury Gazette and there was only one obituary for a passenger on SHANNON. None of the three dead seamen were mentioned.
It was common practice to bury people at sea in those days.