In a huge pickle!!

[littleem1906]

Hi all,

I have an Albert Edward Stanley in my family tree and when tracing his family back I have hit a brick wall and got myself into a bit of a pickle!! I know he married Minnie Richmond in Birmingham in 1922.
On the marriage certificate his age is 22 and his father's name is JOHN HENRY STANLEY ( a wire cleaner).

I then searched for an Albert Edward Stanley in the 1901 and 1911 census in the same household as a John Henry Stanley and found a match. In 1911, Albert Edward is 10. Place of birth, Lancashire. He lives with a John Henry Stanley (age 38, widowed coal miner from Dawley, Shropshire). The head of the house is Eliza J Stanley (60, widow) who is John Henry's mother and there are a few of her other sons living there too.

In 1901, Albert Edward is 1 years old. Place of birth Abram, Lancashire. He lives with father John Henry Stanley (aged 28, place of birth Dawley, Shropshire) and mother Phoebe Stanley (aged 26, place of birth St Helens, Lancashire). There is also a brother of Albery Edward called Thomas W Stanley (aged 2, born St Helens).

I searched for a marriage between a John Henry Stanley and a Phoebe and found a match. John Henry Stanley married Phoebe Webb in 1899, Greater Manchester, Lancashire. I also discovered that Phoebe died in 1905 in Lancashire. Possibly the reason why John Henry returned to Staffordshire to live with his mother.

Now this is where things become difficult. I cannot find a birth for John Henry Stanley anywhere! I know he was born around 1873 in Dawley, Shropshire.

Here he is in the census records;

In 1911 he is living with his mother Eliza J Stanley in Ironstone Road, Chase Terrace, Staffordshire. He is a 38 year old widow (meaning a birth of around 1873). His wife Phoebe had died in 1905. His place of birth is Dawley, Shropshire. Also there are a few of his siblings and his son Albert Edward (aged 10).

In 1901, he is living in Abram, Lancashire with his wife Phoebe (Webb) who he married in 1899 in Lancashire. He is 28 and again place of birth is Dawley, Shopshire. Also there are his sons Thomas W (2) and Albert Edward (1).

In 1891, he is living in Ironstone Road, Staffordshire with his parents Eliza J Stanley and Josiah, and his siblings. He is 18, place of birth, Shropshire.

In 1881, he is living in Ironstone with his parents Eliza J and Josiah, and his siblings. He is 8, place of birth Dawley, Shropshire.

His parents were Josiah Stanley and Eliza Jane Briscoe. I have found birth records for all of his younger siblings and his older brother William Thomas Briscoe (given mother's maiden name). His parents did not marry until 1874 so there is a possibility he was registered with surname Briscoe.

I found two possible birth records:
John Henry Briscoe
Year of Registration:    1873
Quarter of Registration:    Jul-Aug-Sep
DISTRICT:    Madeley
COUNTY:    Shropshire
Volume:    6a
Page:    613

Name:    John Henry Briscoe
Year of Registration:    1872
Quarter of Registration:    Jan-Feb-Mar
DISTRICT:    Madeley
COUNTY:    Shropshire
Volume:    6a
Page:    665

Is it possible that although being registered as Briscoe, he then chose to use the name Stanley? If his older brother, born in 1872 was registered as Briscoe then he in 1873 would mostly likely have been too. His older brother lived throughout census with his grandparents yet John Henry always lived with his parents and appears as Stanley.

Can anyone shed some light on my confusion?

[Evie]

Hi

Familysearch, I think, has the John Henry Briscoe of 1873 baptism 5th August 1873, mother Eliza Briscoe at Dawley-Magna, Shropshire

evie

[littleem1906]

Yes unfortunately there appears to be a John Henry Briscoe of around the same age with mother's name Eliza!!

[littleem1906]

Just looking at the 1881 census there is a John Henry Briscoe, born 1872 in Dawley. Parents Eliza and John.
This would account for the 1872 Shropshire birth that I found.
There is no other John Henry Briscoe in 1881 born around 1873 (which is the second birth record I found). So this adds strength to my case that John Henry, although registered as Briscoe, appears in census as Stanley right?

[littleem1906]

The baptism is my John Henry! :-) The only other John Henry Stanley born in Dawley of the same age appears in census with father John Briscoe and mother Eliza Briscoe. On the baptism you found, only a mother's name is given, suggesting an illegitimate child. If the child belonged to John and Eliza Briscoe (and they were married!), then surely the father's name would appear.

[Evie]

Hi

I agree it does seem to suggest an illegitimate child. Out of curiosity I searched for Samuel Briscoe who is on the 1881 census with the 1872 John Henry and his baptism has John Briscoe and Eliza. It is strange though that their John Henry's baptism doesn't seem to show up.

One of my ancestors was registered under his mother's name, then took on his step father's name in the census but reverted back to his birth registered name on marriage and thereafter. So your John Henry must have decided to keep his step father's name, unless he didn't know any different as he was very young when they married.

evie

[Evie]

Oh dear you have me in a pickle now

In the 1891 census there are 2 John H Briscoe both Shropshire born but the John H with John and Eliza has now a birth year of 1874 the other 1872

I'll have to look at this again shortly, unless someone else can shed some light.

evie

[littleem1906]

Haha see, it is confusing isn't it! 

[Evie]

Hi

Just to confirm the marriage you found for John Henry and Phoebe Webb.

They were married 6th Aug 1899 at Abram, Lancashire. John gives his father's name as Josiah Stanley. He was 25 calculating his birth year as 1874.

evie