India General Service Medal (1854-1895) query

[JJENG]

Hello - I have the army service record of my g/grandfather Thomas Carthy who served with the 20th. Hussars (Private no.314) from 1861 to 1877 on the North West Frontier.

Although this period was between the 1st and 2nd Anglo-Afghan wars, nevertheless I believe the regiment took part in several expeditions and campaigns to quell rebellious tribesman on the frontier.   However surprisingly, there is no indication on his record of medals received.

Against the heading 'details of good conduct/badges of merit/gallant conduct etc.' there is only mention of good conduct badges.  Should he have received the India General Service Medal with any of the 17 clasps which I believe were issued for various NW Frontier campaigns?

Any information would be much appreciated.
Thanks - John

[ladysmith]

Hi John

There were 23 clasps awarded for the IGS 1854 but only 8 for active service on the Northwest Frontier. Most of the others were awarded for service in Burma and the Northeast Frontier although clasps were also issued for Persia and Perak (Malaya).

The Northwest Frontier clasp was awarded for 16 separate expeditions between 1849 and 1868. Only the last two were awarded for the period your g-g-f served on the NWF, 5/12/1863-2/1/1864 and 3-22/10/1868. However, the only British cavalry which qualified for the former were three troops of the 7th Hussars. None qualified for the latter.

In fact, apart from a very small detachment of Dragoon Guards in Hazara in 1891 no British cavalry served in any of the other NWF campaigns or expeditions covered by the IGS 1854. (Indian cavalry units were deployed instead).

David

[JJENG]

David - many thanks for your detailed and imformative reply, which explains why my g/g/f did not receive the IGS medal.  Have you any further specific information about the history of the 20th Hussars in India from 1861 to 1872 when it returned to the UK? I am writing a narrative about my forebear based on his service record and it includes the following passage:-

'Like most, Thomas volunteered to transfer to the British Army from the 2nd. Bengal European Light Cavalry and in 1861 he joined the newly formed 20th. Hussars Cavalry regiment (nickname ‘The Xs’ or ‘Nobody’s Own’) at Muttra, Bengal. 

The history of the 20th. Hussars show that they were based in the Punjab Region of India during the next ten years, at Sailkot in 1863 (comprising 23 officers and 375 men) and then Ambala from 1868.  Although this period was between the First and Second Anglo-Afghanistan Wars, the regiment nevertheless saw active service on the North West Frontier by protecting communication routes for a number of expeditions (notably the Eusocf Zie (Oct.- Dec.1863) and the Hazara (Oct. 1868) Campaigns) to quell rebellious Afghanistan frontier tribes and generally guarding this traditional gateway to India from potential Russian expansion.'

If you are able to add to this and / or provide corrections it would be much appreciated. Thanks again for your help - John.

[JJENG]

Hello again David,
On looking at your previous posts you also appear to be very knowledgeable about regiment involvement in the Boer War.  The son of my g/g/f, my grandfather (also named Thomas Carthy) fought in the Boer War with the 6th.Inniskillings Dragoons with QSA medal clasps for Cape Colony, OFS, Diamond Hill and Johannesbourg. I am also writing a narrative about his service life - do you have any information about the history (bases, actions etc.) of the Inniskillings during its stay in South Africa from 12/1899 to 4/1901?  By the way, my maternal g/gf also fought in the Boer War with the Buckinghamshire Yeomanry!  Sorry if I am asking alot.. but I would be very grateful if you can contribute to my narratives.
Thanks again = John 

[ladysmith]

Hi John

Your second Thomas Carthy joined the 6th Dragoons as a 14 year old band boy but ended his service with the 3rd Dragoon Guards. I take it you're aware that 10 pages of his service papers are in the NA and on findmypast? He was also entitled to the South Africa 1901 clasp on his QSA.

The 6th Dragoon's first active service after landing at Cape Town was in the Colesberg district of the Cape Colony in December 1899-January 1900. One squadron was involved in the relief of Kimberley but your man was in one of the other two squadrons. They made their way to Bloemfontein the Orange Free State in April 1900 where they joined the main army.

Both his Cape Colony and OFS clasps didn't involve any big battles but would have covered several smaller actions and skirmishes.

The Johannesburg clasp covers the action at Doornkop 29/5/1900 which was on the southern approach to the city and had to be taken before Johannesburg could be captured. Most recipients of the Johannesburg clasp weren't involved in the action itself but the 6th Dragoons were there. (The Gordon Highlanders were the most heavily involved unit).

Diamond Hill (11-12/6/1900) was a battle designed to push the Boers eastwards after the capture of Johannesburg. The Diamond Hill clasp was awarded to many units, most of whom didn't take an active part in the battle. The 6th Dragoons were there but not as heavily involved as some units.

His papers show he left South Africa in April 1901 which was sufficient to qualify for the South Africa 1901 clasp. If he'd stayed on until 1902 he would have received the King's South Africa Medal as well as the QSA.

I have the medal rolls for the Imperial Yeomanry so if you let me have your man's name I'll look him up, IY service papers have a survival rate of almost 100% in the NA.

David

[JJENG]

Hi David,

Yes, I do have the service papers of my grandfather Thomas Carthy.  I am endeavouring to expedite as much detail as I can about my soldier ancestors, as I am compiling a narrative about the lives of each...so what you have told me about Thomas Carthy's Boer War participation is tremendous! Previously all I had found was from a book 'Battle honours of the British Army regiments', which mentions one squadron of the 6th.Inniskillings Dragoons taking part in the Seige of Kimberley (Feb. 1900) and the regiment being part of 2nd. Brigade of the Cavalry Division under Lt.Gen. French.

I am amazed that you know which Innskillings squadron Thomas was with - which was it as I have found a detailed description on the web of the embarkation from Glasgow and voyage of 'C' Squadron to South Africa on 24/10 and arrival 26/11/1899.  Were there three Squadrons - A, B and C?

I also have no information about the whereabouts/activities of the Inniskillings from 1893 (when Thomas joined as a boy soldier) until they went to South Africa. Can you help?

Regarding my paternal g/grandfather Frank Jeffs of the Buckinghamshire Yeomanry, from 'Findmypast' I have found brief transcribed details from TNA WO128 (soldier's documents) and WO100 (medal roll) with information about his QSA medal and clasps and an action in Feb. 1902 when he was slightly wounded and possibly captured. Here again, anything further you can add about his regiment's actions  and movements in South Africa and his service life would be great.

Returning to my original enquiry on Rootschat about the service life of my g/grandfather Thomas Carthy (Snr) with the 20th. Hussars on the NW Frontier, did you see my separate reply to you in response to the information you kindly supplied about the medal clasps?  As before, anything further you can add about the history of the 20th. Hussars would be superb.

I have always liked Kipling's 'Barrack Room Ballads', so finding out about my Victorian Army ancestry has added to the interest!  It's just a shame that the people in question were unpleasant typically strict Victorian heavy drinking individuals, so I am told!     

Sorry to ask so much, but your help is very much appreciated.
Best wishes,
John

[ladysmith]

Hi John

I don't know exactly which one of the three squadrons (A, B or C) Thomas was in. However, the squadron that went to Kimberley would have received the Relief of Kimberley clasp instead of Cape Colony. As Thomas received Cape Colony he must have been in one of the two squadrons that stayed in the Colesberg district.

Unfortunately I don't have any specific information on the movements of the 6th Dragoons before the Boer War other than Thomas being shown on his papers as serving at home (which could have included Ireland). Similarly his army service after the Boer War was at home so South Africa was his only overseas posting.

Likewise I also have no other information on the movements of the 20th Hussars so am unable to add to the information you've already obtained.

You seem to already have most or all of the readily accessible information on Frank Jeffs. The roll shows 23591 Trooper Frank Morton Jeffs awarded the QSA with clasps Cape Colony, Transvaal, South Africa 1901 & South Africa 1902 and slightly wounded at Yzerspruit 25/2/1902. His papers are, as you say, in series WO 128 at the NA although if you only have transcriptions full photocopies can be obtained from the NA. (This series isn't online).

Imperial Yeomanry service can be difficult to pin down because very often units were split, re-formed and frequently combined with other units, etc. It was often a very fluid organisation and the basic company unit was quite small. Unlike regular infantry or cavalry regiments, not many of these IY units published a unit history of the war and those that did issued them in such small numbers that they're very rare and of course very expensive even if you can find a copy.

[km1971]

Hi John

Movements of the 6th Dragoons prior to the Boer War were:

= Brighton – November 1890
= Shorncliffe – February 1894
= Churn Camp – June 1894
= Manchester – September 1894
= Edinburgh – June 1895
= Dundalk – June 1897
= Curragh – April 1899

They left for South Africa on October 25, 1899. These places are where the main force was – ie the CO. If the location did not have enough barrack space, the squadrons (about 60-70 men per squadron) would be scattered around the neighbourhood. Churn Camp was a tented camp near Blewbury, then in Berkshire. It was only used in the summer.

The depot appears to have been with the ‘regiment’/service squadrons while they were home. But if you have his record it should say where he attested. It should be in Brighton.

Ken

[JJENG]

Hello David and Ken,

Many thanks for your tremendous responses, which has added so much more to my knowledge about the service life of my forebears Thomas' (Carthy) and Frank (Jeffs) and the Army practices of the time.

Ken - have you any more detail about the embarkation of the Inniskillings from the UK? As I have previously mentioned I have detail from the web of 'C' Sqdn. leaving Glasgow on 24/10/1899 aboard the troopship RMS Persia.

Also have you any information about the movements/bases of the Inniskillings and the 3rd. Prince of Wales Dragoon Guards after the Boer War when Thomas was attached to them? The information I have is:-

Iniskillings
12/1903 Married in Brentford
4/1905 Son born in Dublin
6/1905 re-engaged for 21 years with Inniskillings in Dublin
6/1905 Posted to 3rd. (POW) Dragoon Guards, Ballincollig

3rd POW Dragoon Guards
10/1906 Son born at The Curragh
2/1908 Daughter born at The Curragh
8/1911 Daughter born at Aldershot (my mother)
7/1912 Discharge at Hounslow

Finally have you any info. about the VictorianWars.com forum that I have registered with, but (after a week) frustratingly haven't received any email confirmation of this from the website owner?

Again, I am very grateful to you both for your kind assistance in my endeavour.

Best wishes,
John