Who was the father of John William Crouchley?

[Forfarian]

Thanks to Rutht22000, I know that the St Marylebone church register of baptisms records the baptism on 28 September 1817, of John William Crouchley, son of John and Sarah Crouchley, born 5 September, father's occupation servant.

On 21 February 1823 John Binny, a wealthy East India merchant, made a will in which he set aside £3000 (equivalent of £125,700 today) to provide for a child aged five years and five months named John William Crouchley, in the care of a Mrs Wicklow in Frederick Place in the Hampstead Road.

John Binny died of cholera in Madras, India, on 2 June 1824, and his brother Thomas Binny of Maulesden, near Brechin in Angus, applied for and was granted probate.

The following was recorded in the Brechin parish register: Baptisms solemnised in the parish of St Marylebone, in the County of Middlesex, in the year one thousand eight hundred and seventeen. Binny. When baptized: 1817, Septr 28. Child's Christian name: John William. Parents' Christian Names: John and Sarah. Parents' Surname: Crouchley. Abode: St Marylebone. Quality Trade or Profession: Servt. When born: 5th Septr. The above is a true Extract from the Register of Baptisms made this 23rd day of December 1824 by me (signed) Bryant Burgess Curate. NB In the above Extract the surname of the Mother is stated, but the boy assumed the name of his father and is named John W Binny. (My italics)

Thomas Binny assumed responsibility for John William Binny, who was educated from 1825 to 1832 at no less a school than the Edinburgh Academy, where the records name his father as John W Binny, Edinburgh.

What puzzles me is, on the one hand, if his father was John Binny the East India merchant, why would he be described as a servant? And if the father was not the East India merchant, why would he provide such a large sum for the maintenance of the child? Any ideas how I could pursue this?

[GR2]

Surely the boy's father, John Crouchley, is the servant. For some reason John Binny has taken an interest in the boy. Did John Binny have any children of his own? It would be interesting to know if John Crouchley senior was a servant of John Binny. There is the making of a Dickens novel in this!

Graham.

[avm228]

This doesn't answer your question, but I see that the St Marylebone register also contains another baptism to a John and Sarah Crouchley many years later.

Baptism, 16 Feb 1831, St Marylebone

Sarah, born 8 July [year unspecified], daughter of John and Sarah CROUCHLEY (he a servant), of Gray St.

...and a few weeks later:

Burial, 8 March 1831, St Marylebone

Sarah CROUCHLEY, of Grays Buildings, a child.

[Valda]

Hi

Marylebone baptism registers can be vague on detail when it comes to occupations - trade, servant, labourer, not the specific occupation.

The baptism register does not record who is present at a baptism just the names of the parents that are given the church. They may not even be present - as in an adult baptism for instance, though the entry remains the same.

In a large parish like Marylebone with many people merely passing through the church could not hope to know the many people who presented their children for baptism. Unless they knew otherwise they would have to take the information given at face value. In reality this is really the baptism of an illegitimate child (as the Brechin register states) though whoever presented the child, perhaps only the mother, seems to have given the impression she was married. If that were the case though you would have expected her to have presented herself as Mrs Binny. So there is some confusion in the register which could lead to several possible scenarios. Sarah came in her own name as Sarah Crouchley with a possible occupation of servant, supplying the father's name as John. Confused clerk thought she was Mrs Crouchley adding John's name to the baptism. The couple came together but using the alias Crouchley in which case the details given about the father's occupation may also have been a bit vague.

Bear in mind there were 23 baptisms at the church that day. For Marylebone that wouldn't be unusual - almost a queue, couples paid their money for the baptism, details were entered in the register (before or after), baptism of the child, next couple in the queue.


There will be death duties paid on the 1824 will. The Death Duty registers are held at The National Archives.

'They can give the name of the deceased, with address and last occupation; the date of the will; the place and date of probate; the names, addresses and occupations of the executors; and details of estates, legacies, trustees, legatees, annuities and the duty paid. They can also give the date of death, and information about the people who received bequests (beneficiaries), or who were the next-of-kin, such as exact relationship to the deceased. ....'



Regards

Valda

[Forfarian]

Surely the boy's father, John Crouchley, is the servant. For some reason John Binny has taken an interest in the boy. Did John Binny have any children of his own? It would be interesting to know if John Crouchley senior was a servant of John Binny. There is the making of a Dickens novel in this!

John Binny never married. He had at least one (other?) known illegitimate child. If John William's father was John Crouchley, why does the Brechin record expressly say that he was not?

[Forfarian]

Many thanks, Valda, for your detailed reply.  I am inclined to think that Sarah was being a little less than totally forthcoming when she presented John for baptism, and allowing the curate or clerk to think that she was the wife of John Crouchley when she wasn't, or if she was, he wasn't the father.

John Binny does not refer to John William Crouchley as his son, but after John Binny's death the child was taken in by John Binny's brother Thomas, also a wealthy nabob who had returned from India and bought estates in his home county, and, as the Brechin record shows, was then known as John William Binny (JWB). JWB was educated far above the station of a servant's son, being sent to no less a school than the Edinburgh Academy. The school records name his father as John Binny; the question is, which John Binny was this?

(in 1834 JWB went to India to join the family firm, founded by John Binny in Madras, and in 1839 went to Australia with William Speid, a nephew of Thomas and John Binny, who had also worked with the House of Binny in Madras. They settled land in Violet Town, Australia Felix, but did not last very long; William returned to Scotland in 1844, and JWB stayed on for a few more years, then disappeared from the records there. He may or may not be the JWB, clerk, who is listed in the Victorian postal directories at Ten-Mile House, 180 miles from Melbourne, in 1869/71, and/or the JWB, clerk or admin at a hospital in Woods Point, Victoria in 1884/5.)

I have John Binny's will, but I will have to try the Death Duty registers to see if they just might specify the exact relationship of JWB to John Binny. Thank you for your help.

[Valda]

Hi


That is presuming the will probated in England and Wales and not India.


Regards

Valda

[Forfarian]

Well, the will itself says, 'Proved at London 25th January 1825', so it seems to have been in England and Wales.

[Valda]

Hi


When searching Death Duty registers you need to know the church court the will was proved in.

There is a John Binny will proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury (which was situated in London)


Will of John Binny of Upper Wimpole Street , Middlesex
Date 04 January 1825
PROB 11/1694


Not quite the same probate date you give.

The guide to wills at the top of the two main London and Middlesex boards has a section on death duty registers (the last section) with links to further information.


Regards

Valda