PJ Gordon of Claremorris, but where was he born?

[ROC]

I've come to a bit of a dead end while researching my great great grandfather, a Mr Patrick Joseph (PJ) Gordon who lived at the Square, Claremorris, County Mayo.
 
I'm trying to figure out who his parents were, and after many months investigating PJ's very interesting life, I've still not been able to trace back to the previous generation.
 
Facts about PJ:
 
He married Kate Martyn (from Galway) at Claremorris Church, County Mayo on 9 Feb 1863. The Church located this entry for me. Unfortunately, it is one year too early to be on the marriage registers. Or perhaps some marriages were registered in certain parishes in 1863?
 
PJ was very well known for his involvement in the Irish Land League, he was a friend of Parnell and Davitt and worked alongside them, he was a Fenian and did 7 prison sentences that I am currently aware of - there may be more out there that I haven't yet read about.

PJ was partially paralysed in his last couple of years alive, apparently due to his time and the treatment he received in harsh, cold prison cells. He was in the following prisons: Galway, Castlebar, Mountjoy, Portlaoise, Kilmainham and Tullamore.

He died on 10th of June 1899 from Peripheral Neuritis. He died at the Infirmary in Claremorris Workhouse. He was not living in the workhouse, he was just taken there after slipping on the street in Claremorris [due to his medical condition] and banging his head and he died shortly after. 

PJ and Kate had ten children that I know of. Their most well known child was Delia Gordon who was the first cure at Knock.   http://www.irishidentity.com/extras/clergy/stories/knock.htm

Their children were as follows:

> Mary Honora Gordon [I don't have any dates]
> Anna Maria Gordon [1863 - unknown]
> Bridget Gordon [1867 - unknown]
> Delia Gordon [1867 - 1930]
> Joseph Gordon [1870 - unknown]
> Sara Mary Gordon [1875 - unknown]
> Thomas M Gordon [1876 - unknown]
> Michael Joseph Gordon [1878 - 1957]
> Winifred [Cissy] Gordon [1881 - 1896]
> Elizabeth Gordon [1886 - unknown]


Some of them emigrated to the US. I can provide more info on them if necessary.

That is the information I DO know about PJ. What I do not know and cannot seem to figure out is where he was born, when, and who his parents were.


His wife was Kate Martyn (I believe from Galway). Her father's name was Thomas Martyn. This information is contained in the attached document, 'article sara'.

Kate died on 28 Apr 1916.

I had thought PJ may have been born in Tuam. (see attached article written by his daughter, Sara, who mentions PJ coming from Tuam, but perhaps he just worked there.)

PJ ran several businesses which include being a bootmaker, he ran a very successful shoe-making company in Claremorris that employed 11 people. He also operated carriages to take people to and from Knock from Claremorris. He and his wife also kept tenants in their house. But he is generally described as 'shoemaker' or 'bootmaker' on documents.

I have paid for two baptism certs from rootsireland. They were the two best matches.

One is for 1839 for a Patrick Gordan born in Tuam. (that's GordAn)
It mentions that he is a twin. The date of birth is 25 Jan 1839.
Address is not recorded. Parish/District is Tuam, Co. Galway. Father is James Gordan, Mother is Mary Fury. Sponsors are William Ash and Mary Kigan.


The other is the only Patrick Gordon in Mayo for 1841 (which would make him 58 at death as his cert states). That tells me that he had an address of Ballyloughan, Crossmolina, County Mayo. He was born/baptised on 17 March 1841, his father is Anthony Gordon and his mother is Winnie Moran. Sponsors were Thomas Leonard and Mary Commons.
Now PJ named one of his own daughters Winnie,  so perhaps after his mother? 

So.... how can I ever figure out which one he is?

There's only one other clue I can follow. I know that PJ had a brother called John M Gordon. All I know of him is from the attached article. He is a police officer in New Jersey, USA, in 1891.

I've found someone in the US census that I believe may be him. The John Gordon I found was a police officer in New Jersey and he married a Bridget Garrigan at Saint James-Catholic, Newark, Essex, New Jersey on 16 Aug 1881, and he died 24 Feb 1894 in Newark, Essex, New Jersey, USA, age 54, so that puts his birth year as 1840. Having searched for him on rootsireland, I couldn't find any John Gordons in the region for that year. 

So... what do I do now? If I could have found John Gordon's baptism record, I'd see who his parents were and match up with PJ. But no such luck.

At this point, I'd appreciate any kind of info at all, it gets pretty frustrating when you can't trace back any further after finding endless articles on PJ's life, but none mention where exactly he came from.

Thanks for reading!

Images removed

[shanew147]

The dates you have are bit unlucky - married the year before full civil registration, and died two years before the census...  without knowing where PJ was born it's difficult to be certain that a baptism record will even exist or not

It's a little unusual, but not unheard of, for an RC marriage from 1863 not include to include a father's name - have you seen the register or microfilm ?


Shane

[shanew147]

.....
...
There's only one other clue I can follow. I know that PJ had a brother called John M Gordon. All I know of him is from the attached article. He is a police officer in New Jersey, USA, in 1891.

I've found someone in the US census that I believe may be him. The John Gordon I found was a police officer in New Jersey and he married a Bridget Garrigan at Saint James-Catholic, Newark, Essex, New Jersey on 16 Aug 1881, and he died 24 Feb 1894 in Newark, Essex, New Jersey, USA, age 54, so that puts his birth year as 1840.
....

Do you have John's father's name from the marriage record ?


Shane

[ROC]

Hi Shane, thanks for your reply.

I haven't seen the register or microfilm, I have spoken on the phone to Claremorris Church on several occasions and they read out records to me while I was on the other end of the line, and told me that there was no other information written into the entry for PJ Gordon other than 'PJ Gordon to Kate Martyn, 9 Feb 1863, Witnesses to the marriage: John Prendergast, Honor Cavanagh.'

I asked if there was anything else written that may be of help and was told there wasn't.  

[ROC]

.....
...
There's only one other clue I can follow. I know that PJ had a brother called John M Gordon. All I know of him is from the attached article. He is a police officer in New Jersey, USA, in 1891.

I've found someone in the US census that I believe may be him. The John Gordon I found was a police officer in New Jersey and he married a Bridget Garrigan at Saint James-Catholic, Newark, Essex, New Jersey on 16 Aug 1881, and he died 24 Feb 1894 in Newark, Essex, New Jersey, USA, age 54, so that puts his birth year as 1840.
....

Do you have John's father's name from the marriage record ?


Shane

This is what I found for John, but I can't be sure I have the right person. https://www.familysearch.org/search/recordDetails/show?uri=https://api.familysearch.org/records/pal:/MM9.1.r/9SKF-4PY/p4

That may not be the same person as the police officer John I found.  https://www.familysearch.org/search/recordDetails/show?uri=https://api.familysearch.org/records/pal:/MM9.1.r/MTB8-VRJ/p1

The marriage register above lists John's parents as James and Mary Gordon, which would match up with the Tuam baptism. But the baptism year for PJ just doesn't add up. That would make him 60 at time of death.

Are death certs usually accurate with age? Or should I expect it to be a little out like census data?

Attached is PJ's death cert.

[shanew147]

I would think the ages on death certs are probably the least accurate of all - the information depends on the knowledge of the informant who may not actually know the exact details, and given at time they are probably distressed..

I have several very inaccurate ages on death certs - including one that's 10 years out.

I would suggest following up the marriage details on that John to confirm if he if is fact a Policeman,with middle initial M. - at least that would confirm father's name for both


Shane

[ROC]

Good points, thanks Shane.

I had just assumed the death cert age would be accurate, but that opens up the PJ in Tuam being the correct one again. It's still a pain that no address was recorded on that baptism cert.

I still haven't been able to find any John Gordon's born in the right time period, I did wonder if John was perhaps PJ's twin, but I can't locate a baptism cert for him at all.

I will try following up marriage details on him so, is it best to try and order a marriage cert from the US for him? I've never done this before.

Thanks.
ROC

[aghadowey]

Their children were as follows:
> Mary Honora Gordon [I don't have any dates]
> Anna Maria Gordon [1863 - unknown]
> Bridget Gordon [1867 - unknown]
> Delia Gordon [1867 - 1930]
> Joseph Gordon [1870 - unknown]
> Sara Mary Gordon [1875 - unknown]
> Thomas M Gordon [1876 - unknown]
> Michael Joseph Gordon [1878 - 1957]
> Winifred [Cissy] Gordon [1881 - 1896]
> Elizabeth Gordon [1886 - unknown]

From https://www.familysearch.org/
1) Mary Honoria Gordon m.(23 Oct.1883 Indiana) Patrick John Egan- 1900 Census should list month and year of birth
2) Bridget born 6 Aug.1867 Claremorris (p.182 in civil register)
3) Joseph born 12 Jan.1870 Claremorris (p.222 in civil register)
4) Thomas born 11 Dec.1876 Claremorris
5) Elizabeth born c1891 m.(2 June 1920 Indiana) James Dalton

Passenger lists for the children going to U.S. might list next of kin in Ireland as well as contact person/address in U.S.- possibly Patrick's brother.

[shanew147]

...
I still haven't been able to find any John Gordon's born in the right time period, I did wonder if John was perhaps PJ's twin, but I can't locate a baptism cert for him at all.
...

that's the problem - if he was born in a parish where records start for example in 1850, there will be no baptism available


Shane