Author Topic: MARSHALL, Ruth - Tiverton 1809/1812  (Read 3318 times)

Offline Charlie616

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 12
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
MARSHALL, Ruth - Tiverton 1809/1812
« on: Monday 13 June 11 01:39 BST (UK) »
Looking for information appertaining to Ruth MARSHALL of Tiverton, Devon, UK

Background
From St Peter parish register:
Mother of Augusta Pozenas Marshall, daughter, illegitimate, born 19 May 1809, and of Charles Marshall, born 21 March 1811. Both children baptised 15 March 1812.
(NB: Marriage and subsequent census data indicate elder child as Auguste Marshall, son).

Believed to have married a French Prisoner of War (Auguste de Pezenas of Toulon) who was on parole in Tiverton at the time and who subsequently absconded (09 Feb 1812).
(Baptism record suggests initial of father's surname as "P", struck-out on both entries and replaced by "M". Other records of illegitimate children at this date show only mother's initial).
Marriages between English women and PoWs were, I understand, discouraged as the marriage was unlikely to be recognised.

From LDS IGI a Ruth Marshall was baptised in Tiverton in 1783 (the same year as AP, St Louis, Toulon), daughter of John and Ruth Marshall.
(Other children by a "John and Ruth Marshall" inc: John -1773, Ann - 1777, Maria - 1786, Elizabeth - 1789, William - 1792, Mary - 1794. Whether this is in any/all cases the same John & Ruth Marshall, I do not as yet know. Whilst the dates of baptism are consistent, they span a 20 year period. Also, whether there is any relation to Mary Marshall of Tiverton whose will of 1810 is held by The National Archives, I again do not as yet know).

Seeking:
Any information on marriage of Ruth Marshall between 1806 and 1812.

Birth/baptism of Ruth Marshall 1783 or other information linking this person to the two children mentioned above.

Thanks in advance,

R

Offline presswoodgs

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: MARSHALL, Ruth - Tiverton 1809/1812
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 16 July 11 17:32 BST (UK) »
Hi, I am a descendant of Charles Marshall, in whose line the name Auguste appears as a first name for several generations, the last being Charles August Marshall buried in Heapham Lincolnshire. I have always doubted that Auguste and Ruth were married, else why the mother's surname at baptism. I wonder if there is any evidence of her trying to obtain maintenance for the children.
By the way did you know that although I can find no evidence that the latter was a prisoner of war, Auguste served on the warship Le formidable with his younger brother Charles, who was a Novice 1st Class.
You mention Auguste absconded in 1812. I noticed in the POW records that there is no entry for his discharge at all, columns just left blank. I would be interested in the source.
AJB

Offline Charlie616

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 12
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: MARSHALL, Ruth - Tiverton 1809/1812
« Reply #2 on: Monday 18 July 11 23:35 BST (UK) »
One possible reason could be that the marriage was not recognised, and therefore the children considered illegitimate. I understand that the advice offered at the time by the authorities was that marriages between English ladies and French prisoners of war would not be recognised, whether this was because of the different and warring nationalities or whether because one party was Catholic and the other Protestant, I'm not clear. As above, it would appear that the father's name was known and recorded, unlike other entries for illegitimate children within the St Peter's parish register. It may also be that the baptism was instigated by a third party, as it has been suggested to me that this may have been a requirement before poor relief could be received from the parish. Someone with greater ecclesiastical knowledge may be better placed to answer that than I.

By "maintenance", are you thinking of support from the father or from the parish? If the former, it is interesting to note that the prisoner in question received a promotion (and thus pay rise) at a time consistent with the birth of the eldest child (and that after three years of being held prisoner). If the later, I believe that the records for Tiverton have not survived.

The muster log from Le Formidable, now in the National Archives (TNA), Kew, does indeed reference both Auguste Pezenas and Charles Pezenas. There is no direct evidence within this document, as far as I am aware, to confirm the relationship between the two, however, from other circumstantial evidence, this does seem likely. The log contains only a few references to Charles Pezenas which, together with the lack of capture records, suggests that his time aboard the ship was short and that he was not taken prisoner with Auguste.
In passing, I noticed that Charles de Pezenas had been awarded the Legion D'Honneur, PEZENAS DE
Unfortunately, this record is not as yet one of those available online.

Again, you are correct in that the entry in the general register, held at TNA, for Auguste Pezenas does not record his fate. To answer this question, I engaged the services of a researcher in Paris to access the National Archives at Vincennes and a second in Toulon to access the maritime records held there. They were able to obtain copies of Auguste de Pezenas' service papers which show, amongst other fascinating details, the date he was captured and the date he returned to France. From there it was possible to find the French papers recording his entry into France and the corresponding list of prisoners who had escaped, as compiled by the British authorities and presumably forwarded to France. Armed with this information, it was then possible to find the entry for Auguste de Pezenas within the descriptions of escaped prisoners, again held at TNA, and the reward offered for each (10 guineas in this case). Sadly, a search through the letters-out from the Admiralty to the parole agent for Tiverton of this time yielded no relevant information.

As an aside, a contemporary account from a French officer, subsequently published in America, mentions that a certain M. Pezenas and M. Laborde, French Navy officers on parole in Tiverton, ran foul of a Royal Marine, Mr Walker, who had them thrown into prison for the night on the grounds of behaviour likely to cause a breach of the King’s peace. It seems this Marine may have exceeded his authority but when the two prisoners requested leave of the judge to enter a complaint, they were advised that this would not be in their best interest. Recognising the wisdom of the judge’s advice, they allowed the matter to rest. This and other similar stories were offered by the author as examples of English justice towards their prisoners and as a cautionary tale to other peoples who may have dealings with the British.

Whilst part of my research seeks to add weight to the argument supporting the claim that Auguste de Pezenas was the father of Auguste and Charles Marshall, I am also attempting to discover more of their mother, Ruth Marshall, of whose origins and fate I know very little.

Other threads on these discussion groups seek to address the progress of the two sons from their baptism at Tiverton through marriages in Chard and onto Sneinton. All three areas were associated with lace manufacture during the nineteenth century and this connection may form the basis for future research.

Offline presswoodgs

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: MARSHALL, Ruth - Tiverton 1809/1812
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 19 July 11 13:30 BST (UK) »
Hi thanks for all the fascinating detail, which goes where I have not yet had the nerve to go, ie into France. I can't reply to your personal message because that is not open to me until I have posted on the site three times! but you are right in identifying me. If  you google me you will find my email details at the parish website.
Do you have a copy of the letter from one of the unmarried daughters of Charles Marshall to one of her nephews telling the story of the POW. That does assert that they were married.
I'm away from home at present so no access to my records so can't remember names.
Forgive me if I'm being stupid, but the only one of your Christian name that comes to mind is on my father's side whereas the marshalls are on my mother's side. AJB


Offline Charlie616

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 12
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: MARSHALL, Ruth - Tiverton 1809/1812
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 20 July 11 12:28 BST (UK) »
Whilst this is going somewhat off-topic, Augusté de Pézenas died in 1820, cause unknown. The contents of his Will are broadly consistent with the details of the letter which you reference (I suspect we each have a similar copy of the latter).
RC

Offline presswoodgs

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: MARSHALL, Ruth - Tiverton 1809/1812
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 21 July 11 21:52 BST (UK) »
Hi, I'm now back home in full possession of my previous records and of my faculties. I remember your name now and that we have corresponded in the past on this family line. It would be good to have a full exchange of stuff sometime, although I suspect that apart perhaps from some Gainsborough related stuff, yours is the richer seam.
Are you saying that in his will Auguste admits to being married to Ruth? I have found that amongst the Marshalls there is a constant theme of being denied inheritance. Is this where it comes from?
regards AJB

Offline Charlie616

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 12
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: MARSHALL, Ruth - Tiverton 1809/1812
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 28 March 12 23:54 BST (UK) »
Just a brief update.
The Will of Auguste de Pezenas as executed did not make reference to a wife or children. However, this is in itself consistent with the story related by aunt Ruth. The beneficiaries are also consistent with that story.
The Legion d'Honneur file for Charles de Pezenas de Bernardy is now available online. Access is currently free.
R.

Offline RAMARSHALL

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 2
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: MARSHALL, Ruth - Tiverton 1809/1812
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 24 December 19 17:20 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I am looking for information about Ruth’s sister Mary born 1794. Mary gave birth to an illegitimate sone James in 1816 who joined the 1st/11th North Devonshires and served in Port Arthur and Sydney. He left the military In 1854 and settled in Adelaide.

Ruth and Mary’s parents were John 1750- and Ruth (née Wood) 1751 -

Any information would be appreciated.

Richard

Offline Charlie616

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 12
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: MARSHALL, Ruth - Tiverton 1809/1812
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 25 December 19 15:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi Richard,

Good to hear from you. I have little information on Mary, beyond:
Born 16 October 1794
Baptised possibly 30 October 1794 - Tiverton, (St.Peter), Devon, England.
I have a public tree on Geneanet, if you should be interested in having a look.
I also have DNA Ancestry, which may be of use.

Re Ruth's parent's
John Marshall
Son of John and his wife Mary. (TBC)
Born possibly 31 May 1751 - Tiverton, Devon, England
Baptised in June 1751 - Tiverton, (St.Peter), Devon, England

Ruth Wood:
Dau of William WOOD & Ruth RICE (TBC) ?1718.
Born possibly 17 March 1751 - Tiverton, Devon, England
Baptized possibly 29 March 1751 - Tiverton, (St.Peter), Devon, England
Buried possibly 8 July 1827 - Tiverton, (St Peter, New Yard), Devon, England

N.B. The MARSHALL tree is speculative, based primarily upon the IGI data. This is one of six John Marshalls married in Tiverton at about this time. However, the name of his spouse, Ruth, is consistent with the names appearing on the baptism record of Ruth Marshall, who in turn is the only Ruth Marshall born in Tiverton around 1785 (to be of a similar age to AP). It has yet to be shown conclusively that whilst each child has parents with the name John and Ruth, that for each this is the same “John and Ruth”.

All the best,

Roy.