HUTTON, John

[majm]

NSW ER 1913, WAVERLEY, polling at Waverley
WILLIAMS  (all the following have this surname)

Ada, 224 Cowper street domestic duties
Alice Jane 224 Cowper street domestic duties
Beatrice Fanny 224 Cowper street domestic duties
Elizabeth Vivian Cowper street domestic duties.
Francis 224 Cowper street tuckpointer
Leslie Hugo M Cowper street draftsman

So, there's nothing there that confirms that Elizabeth Vivian WILLIAMS was at the same address as John HUTTON. 

As I don't have ready access to the Census, although I do have Ancestry and have been nearly driven insane trying all permutations of these names.

I am looking for John Hutton in 1913......a source has told me he was in Randwick or Waverley, Cowper Street to be exact.
And there was Elizabeth Vivian Williams and her mother there too.

Gentle mention if I may,  none of us have access to the Census  .... the records were not retained once the statistics had been compiled.   There has been privacy issues in NSW record keeping ever since the First Fleet arrived.

Cheers,  JM

[sparrett]

NSW ER 1913, WAVERLEY, polling at Waverley
WILLIAMS  (all the following have this surname)

Ada, 224 Cowper street domestic duties
Alice Jane 224 Cowper street domestic duties
Beatrice Fanny 224 Cowper street domestic duties
Elizabeth Vivian Cowper street domestic duties.
Francis 224 Cowper street tuckpointer
Leslie Hugo M Cowper street draftsman

 
 
 

 
Cheers,  JM

[/quote]

The people on your list JM who are listed at 224 Cowper St, appear to be one family
Here are acouple of births to the parents Francis and Alce Jane WILLAMS

12482/1888 WILLIAMS Beatrice F   
Parents Francis & Alice J
WATERLOO

15906/1883 WILLIAMS Ada
Parents Francis & Alice J
PARRAMATTA

I think this  is Leslie Hugo.
QLD death
1957   B20646 Leslie Hugo WILLIAMS
Parents Thomas & Elizabeth HUGO

 Sue 

[sparrett]

There is this death 

20997/1948  WILLIAMS Elizabeth Vivian
Father (HUGH)
At  WAVERLEY

And a death notice indexed
http://ryersonindex.net/search.php

WILLIAMS   Elizabeth Vivian
03AUG1948
Aged    92
At Waverley, late of Woollahra
Publication Sydney Morning Herald
Date   06AUG1948

Sue

[sparrett]

In memoriam for the woman whose death  have listed.

WILLIAMS.-In loving memory of Elizabeth Vivian Williams, beloved mother of Hilda, and 'our grandmother. Nell Eric, and family.

The Sydney Morning Herald   Saturday 6 August 1949

ADDING
So this is the birth
6466/1883 WILLIAMS   Hilda Louise
Parents Thomas & Elizabeth
At GLEBE   


Sue

[cupoflife]

There is this death 

20997/1948  WILLIAMS Elizabeth Vivian
Father (HUGH)
At  WAVERLEY

And a death notice indexed
http://ryersonindex.net/search.php

WILLIAMS   Elizabeth Vivian
03AUG1948
Aged    92
At Waverley, late of Woollahra
Publication Sydney Morning Herald
Date   06AUG1948

Sue

Elizabeth Vivian WILLIAMS
Death notice: SMH6Aug1948 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f71/ (see left-hand page in this link)
WILLIAMS, Elizabeth Vivian - August 5 1948, at 31 Henry Street Waverley, Elizabeth Vivian Williams (late of Vernon Street Woollahra), dearly loved wife of the late Thomas Williams and loving mother of Leslie and Hilda, and beloved grandmother of Dorothy, Cyril, Phyllis, Ron, Betty and Nelly, aged 92 years
Funeral notice (same page) Waverley Cemetery

[sparrett]

Possibly this is the marriage of Elizabeth HUGO and Thomas WILLIAMS in England, the parents of Leslie Hugo and Hilda Louise


Marriages Sep 1877   
HUGO  Elizabeth
Falmouth  5c /249

Sue   
 

[Siouxsie]

Let me answer the questions :

judb : Yes, that is my John (Jack) and yes, I have his records. His war diaries are featured in the State Library of NSW and there are at least 4 other women as well as the Maggie who is asking for his address.

Majm : that is the entry I was after.Did it give a house number??
Hilda was not married to Jack, and she had a daughter, father unnamed, and she later claimed that Jack was the father. This is the mystery I am trying to sort out.
Hilda should have been Hilda Williams on the roll, and I believe that Jack was boarding with her family (Elizabeth being the mother).

sparrett : Yes, this is John Thomas Hutton Junior, and his dad did marry Hilda Adcock. John Thomas Junior died in 1958. John Thomas senior died in Inverell in 1946.

MAjm : did Jack and Hilda live at 224 Cowper with the Williams?

And thank you for the Williams information.

My tricky situation is that I have an elderly man claiming that his mother was my mother's unknown half sister. Jack was an apprentice jockey and boarded in Sydney, and if this is true then at the age of 15 this very short (5'2") lad had his way with an even shorter 22 year old , Hilda Williams. She had the baby but didn't name the father.

I am quite open to having more family, however, I need to make sure that we are family. Jack's sad history with his mother Ellen (who we have talked about on these boards) was a major part of his life. I am struggling with the thought that he
a) impregnated a young woman and didn't marry her
b) lived with her as husband and wife and then just up and left and went back home
c) never ever had any more contact with them.

All of his diaries and his devotion to his family seem to portray a very different man.

[majm]

Majm : that is the entry I was after.Did it give a house number??
Hilda was not married to Jack, and she had a daughter, father unnamed, and she later claimed that Jack was the father. This is the mystery I am trying to sort out.
Hilda should have been Hilda Williams on the roll, and I believe that Jack was boarding with her family (Elizabeth being the mother).

MAjm : did Jack and Hilda live at 224 Cowper with the Williams?

NSW Electoral Roll 1913 WAVERLEY, polling Waverley
HUTTON  Hilda, Cowper St, domestic duties
HUTTON  John, Cowper St, jockey

NO OTHERS by that surname for that polling place.


There is absolutely no way from the above to confirm IF these two even knew each other, much less were related to each other.  Afterall, the roll does not include their respective titles or the house name or number of their respective residences.

It was not yet compulsory to enrol.  You needed to be a British Subject, either by birth or naturalisation, and you needed to be aged 21 years or more. 

NSW ER 1913, WAVERLEY, polling at Waverley
WILLIAMS  (all the following have this surname)

Ada, 224 Cowper street domestic duties
Alice Jane 224 Cowper street domestic duties
Beatrice Fanny 224 Cowper street domestic duties
Elizabeth Vivian Cowper street domestic duties.
Francis 224 Cowper street tuckpointer
Leslie Hugo M Cowper street draftsman

So, there's nothing there that confirms that Elizabeth Vivian WILLIAMS was at the same address as John HUTTON. 

It was not and still is not illegal to be known by any name you wish to be known by, provided of course you are not being fraudulent or otherwise deceiving.    So, for example there is nothing wrong with becoming known by the surname of the person with whom you may be co-habitating, even if you have not formally married that person.   

But there's nothing on the electoral roll that shows how anyone at 224 Cowper Street is related to anyone else at that same address, nor does it show if Hilda HUTTON lived at 224 Cowper or if John HUTTON lived at 224 Cowper.   

Cowper was and still is a fairly long street.     Hilda HUTTON may have lived in any of the homes along that street, so too for John HUTTON.   And, it is also important to remember that the roll does NOT include everyone.  UNLIKE the UK Census, the NSW Electoral Roll for 1913 only lists those persons who not only were eligible to enrol, but who had elected to enrol.

Cheers,  JM

[cupoflife]

NSW BDM Birth:
11900/1906 Nellie WILLIAMS; Father - ; Mother-Hilda L; Burwood

SMH20Apr1965
WILLIAMS, Hilda Louise - April 15 (suddenly), late of 62 Surrey Street Potts Point, loving mother of Nellie, dear aunt of Dorothy, Phyllis and Ron, little grandma to many, aged 81 years.
Funeral notice21April1965 Waverley Cemetery