Jane Green

[jk22]

Hello.
Jane is my great grandmother whom i never knew.  She was born in Weeley, Essex in 1855 to Robert and Sarah (nee Watkins) Green.  I have her bc.  Her second name which appears on subsequent documents has it as Rebekah - sometimes spelt as Rebecca.
I cannot find Jane on the 1871 census.
I have her on 1861, 81, 91 and 1901.  All info is consistent.
Her mother Sarah became a widow in late 1850's, not long i suspect after Jane's birth.  She was the youngest of 4 children, John, Octavius and Sarah Ann.  I have a good deal on these sibs ie some bdms and most of the censuses to 1911.
Jane's mother remarried in 1874 to a David Adams.  Jane at 19 is listed as a witness.  So i don't know if she was living with her mother up until this time and maybe even after, having David as a step-father.  He was not much older than Jane as he was about 13 years younger than Sarah.  David had been a lodger with the widow Sarah and her 4 children in 1861, age given then as 25.  I suspect the marriage between Sarah and David did not last.  I have been unable to find a death for Sarah Adams (or Green) that is near certain, given the scores of entries on freebmd and ancestry.
So i am wondering if i could find Jane on the 1871 census.  She marries my ggrandfather George Kemp in late 1881.
Regards,
Julie Kemp

[Bryant]

Hello Julia

Just to help the cause in finding her/them (but I still haven't found her)....some conflicting info from the data supplied, or am I reading it wrong?

ie
Her mother Sarah became a widow in late 1850's, not long i suspect after Jane's birth.
David had been a lodger with the widow Sarah and her 4 children in 1861, age given then as 25 (age is 26 and it appears he was born circa 1833 info from the 1841 census where he is 8 years old)

1881
Dec qtr 1881, Camberwell R.D, Surrey
Jane Green marries George Kemp
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1874
June qtr 1874, Bethnal Green R.D
Sarah Green marries David Adams
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1861 census
Clacton Road, Weeley, St Osyth, Tendring, Essex
Sarah Green.....Head....40 Widow....Laundress & Lodging.....Wales
John........".........Son......16....Agricultural Labourer...............Weeley, Essex
Octavious "........Son......13....Agricultural Labourer...............Weeley, Essex
Ann..........".......Daur......11....................................................Weeley, Essex
Jane.........".......Daur......5......................................................Weeley, Essex
David Adams...Lodger....26 Unmarried.. Woodmen.... Weeley, Essex
(David Adams is stated as being 8 years old in 1841 Weeley, Essex)
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1858
Mar qtr 1858, Tendring R.D
Robert Green dies
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1851 census
Heath, Weeley, St Osyth, Tendering, Essex 
Robert Green....Head...50......Ag Lab....................Ardleigh, Essex
Sarah........".......Wife....37.....................................Bracknock, Radnorshire
John.........."........Son......6......Scholar....................Weeley, Essex
Octavis......"........Son......4......Scholar....................Weeley, Essex
Sarah A.....".......Daur......18 months......................Weeley, Essex
William Syrett...Lodger...77 Widr...Pauper Ag Lab...Lt Bentley, Essex
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1844
Mar qtr 1844, West London R.D
Sarah Watkins marries Robert Green
-------

Bryant
 

[jk22]

Hello Bryant.
Thanks for the coverage. 
I've been on this for about 5 years and just cannot find where Sarah and her daughter, Jane, were for the 1871 census or where they were up to Jane's marriage in 1881.  I know Jane gave her older sister's home address as her place of residence on her marriage record:  that was Unwin Road, Camberwell.  Hopefully Sarah, her mother, was alive for Jane's marriage to my greatgrandfather.  She's not given as a witness.  Jane's sister, Sarah Ann and her husband Frederick Moore are witnesses.  So does this suggest that Sarah, the mother, is now deceased?
I've wondered that perhaps Sarah stayed on in Weeley, developed the bond with David Adams over the years 1861 to the year of marriage, 1874, which took place south of Weeley in Bethnal Green, Middlesex.  How long had she been in that area? By this time Sarah's two of her 4 children had married.  Her elder daughter, Sarah Ann, was married and living in Chelsea/Kensington.  Her son-John in East Ham. Octavius, not certain as he was likely in the Army.
I also am unable to find when Sarah as Sarah Adams died.  Where was this registered?  I've looked on Ancestry to no avail really - way too many Sarah Adams and i don't have much to go on.
Can you help here please?!
Kind regards
Julie Kemp

[Bryant]

I'm afraid that I will concede defeat on finding Jane in 1871....tried every Jane from Essex to no avail and no doubt quite a few others have tried to find her as well!.
Conclusion....Jane missed/was omitted from the 1871 census for whatever reason
-----
Unwin Road doesn't appear to exist in 1871 but does in 1881 so one assumes it was a new road and houses or a road that was renamed? but I don't see the Moore family living there, should they be?

Bryant

[jk22]

Thanks awfully Bryant for the work and confirmations.

Re address:  i looked about the family and found that  my ggrandmother married in October 1881 and gave her residence as that of her sister, Sarah Ann who lived with her family at 24 Unwin Road, Camberwell.  The church was St Andrew's in C'well.  Earlier in the year it looks as if Sarah Ann and husband had moved from the census given address which was 10 Reddins Rd, C'well.  My ggrandmother Jane, had been resident on the north side of the Thames in St Leonards, Bromley-by-Bow, afterall my ggrandfather's public house, The King's Head was at 8 Bow Road, BbyBow.  It looks like Jane did the nice thing of moving to her sister's probably a nicer area in preparation for her wedding.  Jane and her hb then later moved from Bromley by Bow to New Malden in Surrey.
Kind regards
Julie

[Bryant]

Julie

In 1881 Unwin Road appears to go upto No 20 and not beyond so it could well be a new development of the time and the family moved to Unwin Road after the census...Reddins Road is next door to Unwin Road. Peckham being the area.
My grandfather was born in Green Hundred Road which is a few minutes walk away

Bryant

[jk22]

Thanks a lot Bryant.
Putting flesh on is good fun!
Julie

[smudwhisk]

This will probably just muddy the waters a little more I'm afraid but David Adams born Weeley was the cousin of one of my direct ancestors so I have a little on him, albeit I didn't know who he married.

For info, David was baptised 15 Dec 1833 at Weeley to Joseph and Eliza Adams, Joseph's brother Robert being my direct ancestor and you will see him at the top of the census page from Sarah Green in 1861.

Although down as a woodman on 1861 census, David is listed as an excavator in 1871 and 1901.  In 1871 he is living as "married" to a Sarah aged 40 years born Hertford in West Ham.  An Excavator was just a posh name for a labourer, which he is down as on the 1881 and 1891 census.

In 1881 he is living with his younger brother James and James' wife Eliza in Prittlewell as a single man, albeit his age is about out.  In 1891 he is lodging with unrelated people in West Ham as a single man.  In 1901 he is in the Forest House Branch of the West Ham Union Workhouse in North Leyton/Leytonstone with his older brother George, both are down as widowed.  In 1911 he is still there as widowed. 

So question, is the Sarah Adams with David in 1871 your Sarah Green nee Watkins, albeit with a fabricated place of birth and her age is a bit out   It's definately possible, this though does assume that the David Adams she married in 1874 was this one.  His father's name is definately correct and he was a labourer.

If this is indeed your Sarah, there is a Sarah Ann Adams born c.1824 dying West Ham Registration District June 1880.  If this was her and she is David's wife, it may explain why he ended up in Prittlewell on the 1881 census.

Sorry as I said, it just muddy's the waters a bit.

Nicola

[jk22]

Well thank you Nicola!

That was good to read.

I did have a good deal on David Adams, working as you say from the 1861 census and all the others.  He lived to  a very good age. 

That pre 1874 marriage to a Sarah did stump me but i assumed that Sarah was someone else even though i well know that age fudging went on a lot - deliberate or not.  Afterall my Sarah would have been well into her 50's at the time of her marriage to David.  Sarah's birth year is still contentious for me as she gave her birthplace as a Brecknock in Radnorshire - well that doesn't work as Brecknock is another name (!) for Brecknockshire/Brecon which is another Welsh county albeit Radnorshire's southern neighbour.  I doubt that my Sarah could pass for 40 at this stage given her hard life.  I hope that she and David had some happiness together.  The other clincher for me was that my ggrandmother, Jane, Sarah's younger daughter was a witness to the 1874 marriage.   

I have been unable to locate Sarah or Jane on the 1871 census so cannot relate to where David was living and working.    As you say the water is muddied!

Thank you for interest and work,
Julie