Was Viscount Tonypandy a relation of my wife?

[Phil Goater]

With the aid of some wonderfully unverified facts I have just reached the conclusion that Viscount Tonypandy was related to my wife and I would appreciate it if anyone can help verify it!

I know that my wife's great grandmother was Martha Thomas who was born about 1851 the daughter of David in the Tenby district. Following investigations on a different thread I am happy to conclude that she had an elder brother Zachariah b.c 1849. I have located him in the 1881 census married to Avarina and working as a coalminer in the Cwmdu area.

Doing a Google search I discovered the following site which mentions Zachariah and Avarinah:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cmtilbury/baclanfield.html
Under 5.Emma Jane Tilbury it records that she married Zachariah Thomas who was born in 1881 the son of Zachariah and Avarinah and that they were the parents of Viscount Tonypandy.

Were there two couples with the names Zachariah and Avarina Thomas where the husband was a coal miner? The reported location of Zachariah junior's birth appears to cast doubt on the connection.

If anyone has had the patience to read this(!) could you please help verify whether there is a connection or not?

Regards,
Phil 

[osprey]

working from the family info on Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Thomas,_1st_Viscount_Tonypandy

this looks like his parents

1901 1 Cross St, Llwynypia RG13/5018 folio 31 pg 3
Zachariah Thomas head mar 20 coal hewer b. Carmarthen, Carmarthenshire
Emma J wife 20 b. Tonypandy
Ada M dau 10 months b. Llwynypia

which makes this family look likely
1891 62 Penygraig Rd, Clydach, Ystradyfodwg RG12/4427 folio 114 pg 29
Zachariah Thomas head mar 53 general lab
Rachel wife 48
David son 26 coal miner
Benjamin son coal miner
John son 19 coal miner
Susan dau 17 general servant
Thomas son 14 coal miner
Ann dau 13
Zachariah son 10
all born Carmarthenshire, Abergwili

[suzard]

Looking at information on Vicount Tonypandy
It states he had older sisters Ada may & Dolly-an older brother Emrys and younger brother Ivor

His father was Zachariah Thomas b c. 1881 carmarthan
Zachariah took to drink and went to war in 1914 never to return again . He had another family in Kent and he died there c.1924 never to return to Wales again.
It seems when he was in the army he had his pay sent to his "wife" in Kent -that is how Emma jane discovered he had another family

this looks like the family in 1901
1 Cross Row
Ystradfodwg Glamorgan
Zachariah Thomas Head M 20 Coal Hewer Carmarthen
Emma J wife 20 Tonypandy
Ada M daughter 10 ths LLwynypw??? Wales

RG13 5018 31 3

Siz

[osprey]

1881 Cwm, Waungeled Rd, Abergwili, Carmarthenshire RG11/5399 folio 31 pg 8
Zechariah Thomas head mar 45 farmer of 4 acres & labourer
Rachel wife 40 b. Conwil
John son 9
Susannah dau 7
Thomas son 5
Anne dau 3
Zechariah son 1
all born Abergwili unless noted

[osprey]

Zachariah & Avarina don't appear to have son called Zachariah

1881 50 Bridgend Rd, Maesteg RG11/5327 folio 92 pgs 21-22
Zacariah Thomas head mar 32 coal miner b. Pembrokeshire
Avarinah wife 25 b. Cardiganshire
John son 7 b. Llangonyd
Mary dau 4 b. Llangonyd

 

[Phil Goater]

Thank you very much Osprey and suzard.

I think you have successfully knocked this theory on the head! I think I should contact the originator of the information concerning the Tilbury family and offer a correction. They gave Zachariah b.1881 so I couldn't prove it one way or the other by the 1881 census which was taken at the start of the year. However I am now convinced that Zachariah and Avarinah are not the grandparents of Viscount Tonypandy and in light of the character of his father that might be just as well!

Rootschat to the rescue!
Thanks again,
Phil

[osprey]

There are no more children on the 1891 census

1891 50 Bridgend Rd, Maesteg RG12/4449 folio 104 pg 44
Zacaruah Thomas head mar44 coal miner b. Leystep(?), Pembs
Averinah wife 35 b. Pontrhydfydigag, Cardigan
John son 17 coal miner b. Maesteg
Mary dau 14
John Edwards brother coal miner 25 b. Pontrhydydegag, Cardigan
David J Jones nephew 6 b. Maesteg

I think the Cardiganshire place name should be Pontrhydfendigaid

1901 50 Bridgend Rd, Maesteg RG13/5041 folio 326 pg 6
Zachariah Thomas head widower 52 coal hewer b. Pembs, can't make out place nae
Mary dau single 25 dressmaker b. Maesteg
Isaac grandson 6 b. Maesteg
Edith M grand dau 2 months b. Maesteg

There isn't a Zachariah Thomas registered Bridgend at the time. You could try telling the owner of the tree, but they might not want to accept correction.

 

[Phil Goater]

Thanks Osprey - that does tidy it up!

For the record Zachariah was born at Lydstep which is near Tenby. I found a record of the marriage of Zacharias Thomas and Averinah Edwards on FreeBMD in the last quarter of 1872 so John Edwards would have been a brother-in-law. The place name for Zachariah's birth in 1901 might well be Manorbier which is the district for Lydstep. There is a record of the death of Avarina Thomas in the Bridgend district in 1896. Remains to be seen who the parents of Isaac and Edith were!

Otherwise sorted.
Thanks,
Phil

[cardiff]

HI
 Just to throw something else in the pot.. have not read all the replies so if I have repeated any thing sorry.
I believe his brother do not remember name, his wife was my Brown owl
They  lived in High street  Cymmer Porth  in the Rhondda. I remember his wife such a lovely lady.
cheers cardiff