Author Topic: Help with date calculation on service record  (Read 1415 times)

Offline rowanali

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Help with date calculation on service record
« on: Friday 23 September 11 08:52 BST (UK) »
Hello,
I wonder if anyone can shed light on the calculation which has been overwritten in pencil on my ancestors service history.  I can find no trace of him after 1908 when he seems to have been struck off whilst a reservist.  The firs date (18.1.98) is obviously his attestation date, but not sure about the rest.  Does it suggest he served again until 1.18?  How does that sum come to 18.1.70?? and what are the 65 and 35??

This might help us work out what happened to him - he just seems to vanish...

Rowanali

Offline Redroger

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Re: Help with date calculation on service record
« Reply #1 on: Friday 23 September 11 19:47 BST (UK) »
Question 4 (His age on enlistment) states 18 years 1 month. I think this may be relevant to the 1.18 in the calculation at the foot of the form, but I am unable to make any sense of it. It could be a botched subtraction, the answer shown have been 18.1.80, but I think without his discharge document it will be difficult if not impossible to make sense of this.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Offline km1971

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Re: Help with date calculation on service record
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 24 September 11 13:54 BST (UK) »
As Roger says they are trying to calculate his date of birth - and are out by ten years. Then they are adding 65 to his DoB - to get (19)35 - and so again it will be wrong.

Do you know when he died? It may assist in discovering what they were doing. The age for receiving the old age pension was reduced to 65 (from 70) in 1928. It was means tested then. So any army pension would affect his old age pension.

Findmypast should also have his Militia papers when he was in the Forfar and Kincardine Artillery (Question 10).

Ken


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Re: Help with date calculation on service record
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 24 September 11 19:02 BST (UK) »
Having had experience with my own 2XGGFs discharge record from 1811 which has obviously been by comparison with evidence from other sources been "massaged" to ensure he had sufficient to receive a pension I wonder if a similar thing has happened here?
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Offline rowanali

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Re: Help with date calculation on service record
« Reply #4 on: Monday 26 September 11 10:05 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your responses.  I do not know when he died, or what happened to him past 1908 when he seemed to be struck off from the Reserves for non attendance.  I had hoped this little calculation might help work out when he died.
His discharge papers - are they all part of the same service history?  I will attach more of his service history incase it helps illuminate anything to your more experienced eyes.  I think Ken you might be on the right track - I do have his papers from the Militia (would they count torwards service years? or was it just from when they joined regular army?). 

On page 3 of his 6 pages of Service Record there is something written about not showing in 1910... have attached it below...

Offline Redroger

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Re: Help with date calculation on service record
« Reply #5 on: Monday 26 September 11 11:11 BST (UK) »
Though we are dealing with events over 100 years apart, in the case of my 2XGGF his militia service certainly counted towards his pension. If it hadn't for the time he spent there plus the heavy massage it underwent he wouldn't have qualified. So, in so far as 1811 is a fair comparison the answer is yes.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Offline rowanali

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Re: Help with date calculation on service record
« Reply #6 on: Monday 26 September 11 11:48 BST (UK) »
I found a medal card for a Robert Richmond with the following numbers and regiments:

Royal Garrison Artillery - 47331
and Royal Field Artillery - 265571

The army service I know about was with the Hassars, but he could have signed up later with the RGA - many of his contempories did - being older men during the first world war.

Would be grateful if anyone could use these numbers to access any more info that you get from the medal card.
By the way his date of birth was 11 May 1879, he was Scottish from Dundee, but seemed to spend time in Hounslow.

rowanali

Offline km1971

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Re: Help with date calculation on service record
« Reply #7 on: Monday 26 September 11 11:49 BST (UK) »
Militia service did not count (here at least) towards his pension.

I do not think he received a pension for his army service. In the Army Reserve he would have received half pay in exchange for two weeks annual training. They would have stopped his pay after failing to receive a ‘life certificate’. He failed to turn up for his quarterly pay and failed to send someone with a life certificate (signed by a policeman, clergyman etc) to prove he was alive. So as far as the army were concerned he had died/disappeared. The final entry says “Did not report before Time Ex(pired)’, and they signed him off after the 12 years was up.

This leaves the calculation of when he would be 65. It may be that he resurfaced wanting an old age pension, and they were checking on the past. Or a clerk was told to get rid of all old files, including anyone who had reached 65, and they had not heard from. You will never really now.

The two weeks training was in the summer, so failing to claim his quarterly pay of about 45 shillings in January makes no sense. So he probably was dead or had emigrated. Even if he was in prison he could send a Life Certificate, and still get paid for when he was out.

About 40 Robert Richmond’s received medals for WW1. You could look at the WW1 enlistments for USA, Canada, Australia and NZ, as well as the UK ones on Ancestry. As well as following the wife – who was probably glad to see the back of him.

I see he earned he Queens South Africa medal with three clasps. There was another Richmond in the 13th Hussars - 4478, initial G. Against him it says  “Medal Forfeit: Discharged for misconduct 03/01/07”.

Ken

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Re: Help with date calculation on service record
« Reply #8 on: Monday 26 September 11 12:20 BST (UK) »
Clearly the rules had been rev ised during the century after 1811.Though I wonder if militia service while the country was at war with France caused the difference?
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)