Dorothy Ethel PHIPPS

[sootycat]

I am searching for the Maori ancestry of our great great grandmother Dorothy Ethel Phipps.  She was born in Australia in 1898 in Carlton, Victoria.  Her mother's name was Mary Jane Phipps, daughter of Joanna Elliott and George Somers Phipps.  Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[mabeljessie]

Hi, 
I'm not sure exactly where the Maori ancestry fits into your search is it Dorothy Ethel Phipps father or further back?

I also have a grandmother who had a child at the Carlton Women's Hospital and I have looked at their new web page which is the Royal Women's Hospital Victoria and they have an Archives centre with patient records up to 1889 online. They will provide information for births over 100 years old if they have it and you provide information that you are related. No promises that they will find anything.
http://www.thewomens.org.au/Archives

It's a lucky find for me too as I hadn't noticed before that they will provide information of deceased patients within the 100year time frame.

There is a mention on another page of costs involved so have a good look there are lots of internal links within the pages.

On the Maori issue I can only suggest listing on the new zealand forum and trying paperspast.natlib.govt.nz and nzhistory.net.nz The nz group have been particularly helpful and friendly with an issue I had.

Cheers
mabeljessie

[sootycat]

Hi Thank you for your reply. 

Our family has always spoken of Dorothy being a decendant of a Maori princess and the only senario I can think of is that it seems Mary Jane Phipps (Mother of Dorothy) had a child out of wedlock as she married Robert Osborn two years after Dorothy's birth.

I had already checked the Womens Hospital data, although had not yet requested a search from them, however I have a copy of  Dorothy's marriage certificate to Andrew Counsell in 1919 and it has been altered to show that her  maiden name had been changed to  Dorothy Ethel Phipps from Dorothy Ethel Osborn in 1932.

Kind Regards

[ennael]

Do you know where Joanna ELLIOTT and George Somers PHIPPS were born and their parents names please.

Leanne

[Walcha72]

Hi,

Could Dorothy actually be of aboriginal descent?  We had a similar story in our family of being descended from a Maori princess.  After a lot of research it turns out we are of aboriginal descent and not one Maori to be seen.

Some of the older members of the family won't accept the aboriginal heritage and still claim to be part Maori.

I think being descended from a Maori princess was more socially accepted than being part aboriginal.

Just another option to consider.

Debbie

[ennael]

I cannot see any of the names asked for on NZ BDM.

Leanne

[sootycat]

George Somers Phipps was born in England in 1853 and Johanna Elliot was born in Victoria in 1860.

In relation to the Maori ancestry, older family members say they have seen a photo with a woman with a tatoo on her face but cannot seem to find anyone who has this photo, but will not dismiss the aboriginal ancesty either.

Regards

Jenny

[mabeljessie]

Hi sootycat,

on the 1898 birth it shows her mother as "May Phipps"and father unknown. Hard to know whether the May was intentional or a transcription error as I am going from a listing. I have the reg no if you are interested in buying the historical image at any stage from vicbdm - should cost around $17.50 from memory.

Cheers
mabeljessie

[majm]

Hi,

Could Dorothy actually be of aboriginal descent?  We had a similar story in our family of being descended from a Maori princess.  After a lot of research it turns out we are of aboriginal descent and not one Maori to be seen.

Some of the older members of the family won't accept the aboriginal heritage and still claim to be part Maori.

I think being descended from a Maori princess was more socially accepted than being part aboriginal.

Just another option to consider.

Debbie

I agree with Debbie, it was definitely socially acceptable to be descended from a Maori but definitely NOT to ever admit to being Aboriginal or with even one grandparent who may be Aboriginal ...  the social "stigma" lasted many generations, possibly from mid 1840s through to very VERY recent times.  I think it was quite deep seated and "ran" through oral histories for many families.  Please don't even consider getting too pedantic with the older generation, they are only reflecting what they were told by their parents, who were told by their parents. So simply make sure that the info you give the older generation does NOT discredit their Mum/Dad/Gran/Pop who are no longer around to defend themselves.... Because afterall, you may want to learn of other pieces of oral history to follow up on        ....   Just let them know that you have not been able to find the registration of the birth of the Maori Princess ....  

Cheers, JM