Author Topic: Help to date old photo  (Read 1878 times)

Offline Beaujolaiswine

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Help to date old photo
« on: Monday 12 March 12 08:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi Folks

Attached is the front and back of an old black and white photograph of some my wife's relatives who went to the USA. At present we don't know who they are or when they went to the USA, but we believe they are relatives on my mother in law's side of the family.

Please could someone help to date the photo which is in Post Card form size 137mm x 87 about 1mm thick. There is no indication of the photographer on the photo. On the back is written "me and keat (Kate spelled incorrectly) and the baby" and "my uncle Tom, Aunt Kate in America".

Many thanks

Richard  :)
Garrett (particularly in Hampshire); Miller (particulalry in Hampshire); Goodey/Goody (particularly in London, Middlesex and South Oxfordshire); Phillips, Williamson and Crockett all in Buckinghamshire; Farnham in Cornwall, Pyne in Sussex and Ireland; Mursell in Hampshire and Isle of Wight; Burnett in Scotland; Bramham in Yorkshire; Colebrooke; Watts

Offline JDJames89

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Re: Help to date old photo
« Reply #1 on: Monday 12 March 12 08:50 GMT (UK) »
The people’s clothing strike me as being Great Depression Era and I would guess this photo was probably taken in the 1930s. It’s a bit hard to tell, however. These folks look fairly rural to me and clothing among this class was very much the same for the 30s and 40s. I wouldn’t guess as early as the 1920s as the woman’s dress would probably be a bit more old-fashioned.
Any chance you’ve got approximate birth years for these guys?

Offline Beaujolaiswine

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Re: Help to date old photo
« Reply #2 on: Monday 12 March 12 21:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi JDJames89

Unfortunately we dont know the dates of birth for the parents. It is possible that Tom had the surname Jones. I also have a photo of another Tom Jones who was in the US forces and visted my Mother in Law born in 1929 and her parents (living in Co. Durham) out of the blue in 1945 when he was stationed in the UK towards the end of WW2. In this picture he looks to be in his early 20's, so it is possible that the baby in the original photo I posted could also be the grown up and in the later photo (attached). On the back of this later photo (not a postcard and in black & white) is written Cousin Tom Jones son of Tom and Kate Feb 18 1945 (which is when I think the photo was taken).

I don't know if this helps.

Regards

Richard
Garrett (particularly in Hampshire); Miller (particulalry in Hampshire); Goodey/Goody (particularly in London, Middlesex and South Oxfordshire); Phillips, Williamson and Crockett all in Buckinghamshire; Farnham in Cornwall, Pyne in Sussex and Ireland; Mursell in Hampshire and Isle of Wight; Burnett in Scotland; Bramham in Yorkshire; Colebrooke; Watts

Offline jim1

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Re: Help to date old photo
« Reply #3 on: Monday 12 March 12 22:39 GMT (UK) »
This stamp box was used 1904-18.I think this is the upper end of those dates.

jim
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
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Offline JDJames89

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Re: Help to date old photo
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 13 March 12 04:50 GMT (UK) »
Hmm. It appears that I might have been off here…

After reading what Jim said, I looked into it a bit more and he’s right. The AZO stamp box on the back of this postcard is the kind that they used from 1914 to about 1918, after that the stamp box looked almost the same up into the 1940s except the symbols in the four corners changed over the years. Additionally, after some more research on American postcards, it appears that white borders on the front popped up in 1915 (an effort to save ink that just caught on as a style) and were popular until 1930. It’s a shame it wasn’t sent through the mail then we could know exactly when it was from!

So it looks like this card more likely dates from the late 1910s or early 1920s than my original guess of the 1930s. I would say lean as far towards the 20s as possible. Even knowing all of this, the woman’s dress still strikes me as odd for a snapshot sort of image from 1918. I would expect something a bit more old-fashioned paired with the man’s overalls and the location of the photo (again, this just strikes me as a rural family and I would bet money that if you find them on a census, they’re farmers). But then again you learn something new every day.   In this case, I suppose there is a chance that this young Tom Jones who visited your grandmother in 1945 is indeed the baby in the photo.  And if not the baby in the photo, perhaps another child as he bears a resemblance in my opinion to Kate.

I apologize for my first estimate. Apparently these sort of dresses became popular earlier than I thought. Kudos to Jim for catching the corners of the stamp box.

 

Offline Beaujolaiswine

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Re: Help to date old photo
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 13 March 12 19:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi JDJames89 and Jim

Thanks for your advice. I agree there is something in the mouth and chin that seems similar between the later photo of Tom Jones and the earlier photo of what may well be his mother Kate. How I can find the family on a 1920's of 30's USA Census I have no idea especially with a surname jones and no idea of more precice location!

Thanks for your help my search goes on.

Best wishes

Richard
Garrett (particularly in Hampshire); Miller (particulalry in Hampshire); Goodey/Goody (particularly in London, Middlesex and South Oxfordshire); Phillips, Williamson and Crockett all in Buckinghamshire; Farnham in Cornwall, Pyne in Sussex and Ireland; Mursell in Hampshire and Isle of Wight; Burnett in Scotland; Bramham in Yorkshire; Colebrooke; Watts

Offline JDJames89

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Re: Help to date old photo
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 13 March 12 21:10 GMT (UK) »
With census records, I think your best bet is just to try and find Jones families with the right combination of first names. Also, it would be a good idea to track the parent(s) birth information in England first as it will help you narrow down candidates here in the states and will maybe even help you track down exactly when they came across

Another thing you might want to look into is WWII draft registration records (they're available on Ancestry - I'd look for you but I don't have a current subscription at the moment, holding out for the 1940 census coming out next month myself). You might be able to find Tom, or at least a few candidates, and work your way back from there. Those sort of records sometimes included information on parents and locations that would help you out in finding more about the parents.

Best of luck.

Offline Beaujolaiswine

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Re: Help to date old photo
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 14 March 12 08:00 GMT (UK) »
Hi JDJames89

Thanks for your advice. Could you have a look at the insignia on the left arm of Tom Jones jnr in his service uniform and let me know what you think. I presume this is an army uniform but I have no idea of the regiment. The insignia may give a clue.

Regards

Richard
Garrett (particularly in Hampshire); Miller (particulalry in Hampshire); Goodey/Goody (particularly in London, Middlesex and South Oxfordshire); Phillips, Williamson and Crockett all in Buckinghamshire; Farnham in Cornwall, Pyne in Sussex and Ireland; Mursell in Hampshire and Isle of Wight; Burnett in Scotland; Bramham in Yorkshire; Colebrooke; Watts

Offline Jean McGurn

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Re: Help to date old photo
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 15 March 12 09:05 GMT (UK) »
Could be wrong but the badge looks very similar to the American Army Air Corps from 1941

Jean
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